Has dog training actually improved. - Page 3

@Hundmutter...show me where I said "that putting more work in ALWAYS means taking more time", I purposely point out that I don't believe in absolutes because there are reading challenged people on this forum who like to assume or extrapolate statements to try to make their point....and what do I get.  Also, since my name was referenced, I have titled a dog in SCH in 1980 with leash and collar and praise, I have titled a dog in SCH in 2003 with food, balls, tugs, and luring into down with food to start off. I don't speak from a keyboard, I speak from experience on both sides of the coin. Same with police training...Look, everyone sees things as they want respective of whether it represents norm or exception....if it makes people feel better today's training methods are superior because ALL dogs deserve to be happy while they are training, and we have found that balls, tugs, food, and luring makes them happy...so it is better. Take care folks!

Don't forgot 'clickers'. LOL

The margin of training rests with the Handler/Trainer.  (Any type of job will show variations, however subtle, based on the person performing that job)!  Therefore, Understanding, Experience,  Knowledge, Commitment and Attitude, play a vital role in the proceedings.  This is the same for dog training.  


When people require a dog to perform a specific function, they may address this from producing something that the dog WANTS - whether food or toy.  This is particularly useful for such duties as ‘Search & Rescue‘, it is imperative that the dog says: “Yes, yes, yes” - no room for a not interested response!


When people train for their own personal accomplishments, they may decide to either use exactly the same technique, or compulsion.  (Again depending on the Handler/Trainer).


These are based on tasks to accomplish and achieve, either with force or allurement.  (Remembering of course, that any correction cannot/should not be given to a dog that does not understand the situation anyway).  BUT unfortunately, I feel what is being gradually lost is thinking the way of dogs.  Gaining a response is one thing, but gaining respect is quite different.  This cannot be demanded with either force or allurement.  


I see training for a response as an extension to general understanding and interaction between Owner and dog - relationship.  A dog can obviously be taught to learn and do something specific from various methods, but the relationship is ultra important. From working with dogs and people for many years, I find that the more they learn about dogs and their world, the more intrigued, aroused and interested they become, which is beneficial to both.


The dog has a great deal to offer, well beyond a specific response to a required exercise.  The ‘yard-stick’ is very long that measures the degree of Owner/Trainer, to become aware and learn the way of the dog.  Hence why there are so many variations on the theme of conduct and training, that is totally dependant on Owner/Trainer.  I feel we should not be so completely focussed on 'an exercise' and the end result, that we miss what is happening inbetween.  Ensure we do not risk losing, or not even gaining Understanding, Experience, Knowledge, Commitment and Attitude with and about dogs.


Regards,
Vixen

Don't forgot 'clickers'. LOL

I use a clicker for teaching many behaviors, clicker training is very powerful when understood and employed properly.

:)

I use clickers for sit and down to start out also.

I think if you're talking about Sport Dogs (like Schutzhund) the judging has changed and what is being looked at and expected...It's NOW not good enough to just do the exercises well...It's expected and judged how the dog's attitude is...So the training is much different then it was 20 or 30 years ago...So methods have changed too...

If you're talking about other dogs such as Service dogs (Police Dogs)...I think what is needed and expected is different...You're not looking for the same type Attention work...The dog needs to be more goal oriented...But...Some Police Dog trainers will still use and include more motivational type work...but the end result is the goal...Not the attention to the handler...

To get back to the post of "Has Training Gotten Better"...I think the answer is that things have progressed and that there are more options to use and that trainers have more knowledge of how and what methods should and could be used...The key is always the Trainer and the Dog...And the Best method possible should be used by the Trainer to utilize the Dog's Natural Abilities...

~Bob~

I find all of the tools in the toolbox have their uses, as regards training our dogs. Unfortunately there will always be people that shouldn't use them. If you understand how to use them, and get the timing right, they are an asset.
I find clickers are really useful for people that talk too much!  The dog gets less confused as it only has one noise to listen for, and can teach some how to improve their timing.
Headcollars are brilliant for teaching dogs to walk nicely, for people who don't understand the concept that you need dogs to be in the right place, to learn that that is the place to be, and persist in yanking them back, so they think' heel' means fly backwards by the neck!
The joy of todays training is that by using the tools correctly, you can have a dog that will turn itself inside out for you, and really enjoys working WITH you. Results can be amazing, as long as you understand the logic. When it goes wrong tho, the dogs get frustrated because it doesn't understand what you want, then you get a dog that is just  confused, and potentially dangerous.
I started out in the check chain era,and like to think I have progressed, but things I learn't then still are valid. Some dogs still need handling into a sit, or a down to understand that that is what you want from them, and then praised or rewarded.
I think it is horses for courses. Whether you want a super enthusiastic working dog, or a reliable pet, you use what suits you and your dog. If that means play training, then that makes me happy.

This is a great thread.  Very informative and it was great to see people playing nice :)  I do have one point to debate though. Zdog stated that no dogs title in 2-4 months without prior training.  Yes they do.  We ship dogs to Germany at 16 months that have had very little handling.  They are back here in Canada in 2-4 months with a Sch.1 on them. ( yes they are trained, these arent the fake titles everyone seems to talk about) I would love to know the secret ( and trust me the arent sharing ;) .  I really appreciate everyones take on the subject! 

byrnjulf,
There is no "secret" as to how the dogs get titled in 2-4 months time.
It's simple, the dogs are trained 5-7 days per week in Germany.
Clubs over there are more of a daily occurance than what we experience in NA.
Most sportsfans in Germany are making training every day or night at the club,
dinners are served nightly etc. A decent dog can be ready for SchH1 in an 
easy 8 weeks time if the work is done daily.

Training has improved over the years, but, in some cases, all the newer kinder 
and gentler methods have allowed less than stellar dogs to be titled. Tricks and
gimmicks are used to get dogs through exercises, which is why we see so much 
of the traits we look for in this breed diminishing.
Dog has zero interest in a retrieve? Well, simple, force retrieve it.
Won't stay on during a drive? Simple, they condition it.

One thing we learned back then about dogs was how they handled stress,
our methods were not near as motivational, and how the dogs dealt with the 
black and white presented to them told us alot about the dogs mental make up.
Now days, so many are afraid to stress their dogs, in the event the dog falls apart.
I do believe there is a happy medium when it comes to training methods, but I also
feel there is a place for compulsion in training as well.