WL - Line Breeding... Which would you choose and why? - Page 1

Assuming that I have done my research on type, health, temperament and working drives etc. Which line breeding do you think will produce the best working dog with balanced drives. I'm not wanting over the top drives as it is hard to find them appropriate homes. By balanced drives I mean they have an "off switch" and are clear in the head.
I've added the information of who the sires are so that those who know them can comment specifically if they so choose.

Breeding A:   Crok von der Mördersdell

• 5 - 5............................................. in V Brix vom Kapfwald
• 5 - 5............................................. in SG Half vom Ruhbachtal
• 5 - 5............................................. in G Ina vom Haus Gard
• 4 - 5............................................. in V Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft                                                        

Breeding B: Drago vom Patriot

• 5 - 5............................................. in V Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft
• 4 - 4............................................. in V Yoschy von der Döllenwiese
• 5 - 5............................................. in SG Mona von der Döllenwiese

Thanks in advance

It would be foolish to answer this question with any seriousness.  The dog's you've displayed only comprise of a quarter of each example's pedigree, with no regard as to their position, any clue as to each breeder's intent or priorities in selection along the way, and more importantly, the phenotype of the parents.  So UNserioiusly, you could be less likely to get an "off switch" and clear head from the Yoschy linebreeding.  That's a very loose guess.

It is my experience that both breedings will be 6 as one and a half dozen for the other ............................... both very nice breedings  IMO .......................................   Greg

Thanks guys. I've added who the sires are so that you can get a little closer look. As with any line breeding there are variables, of course. I have spent many months ruling in or out studs that I like and have proven themselves. This is just my short list. I really want to secure a line breeding, as such, to try to solidify the type and characteristic as well as health and drives. As with ANY breeding, there will be variances in the litter.That's a given. But in my experience line breeding will close that gap better than just breeding for type w/o line breeding.  If you don't feel comfortable commenting, that's fine. I just wanted to open my research up to any expert advice that's available.
Thanks again!!

I'm relatively new to WL GSDs and I'm not a breeder, only an owner. But if you were looking to get a WL dog, why would you consider something like this? I'm not asking just to be pedantic. I'm asking because I don't understand WHY someone would want to know.

Surely a reputable breeder would be able to tell you which of their dogs should suit your requirements.

In a couple 2/3 years I will be getting (hopefully) a WL dog. I had a WL GS (Koda from MNJ, Nyrvana Kennels, Hertfordshire, UK) last year. He wasn't particularly high drive but did train and work extremely well. He did have an "off switch" but I made the mistake of allowing him to bring his toys to me late at night (with my disability I cannot train or play with my dogs after about 9pm at the very latest).

So it got to the point where I couldn't physcially cope with Koda's demands for interaction. This was in no way his fault. He was my dream dog.

The day I took Koda home I saw for myself how Margaret and Ulf  train and work their other dogs. I saw Koda and also another pup who was younger than Koda at the time (he was 8 months old).

Before I went  to the training field, a friend of mine from the local SchH club had spoken with me about another WL GSD (I already own a bitch with HD) and had mentioned Koda to me. He knew that as I was new to SchH I wouldn't be able t handle a very high drive dog. He was absolutely right.

Koda went back to Margaret and Ulf at Easter this year because he wouldn't switch off late at night. Again, I fully admit this was my fault.

But as a dog owner, I don't need to think about pedigrees and what breeers may be doing. I know that a reputable breeder such as Margaret would know which of her dogs would or would not be suitable for someone like me. She knows the pedigrees of the dogs she mates and once there is a litter on the ground adn they start to develop their own personalities and characters, she would know what sort of homes they should go to.

with that in mind, why would anyone other than a breeder, need to ask such a question (even if only for their own considerations?)

Laura xx

Laura, I am a breeder. Breeders do know what they have, and they also know how they want to improve and keep the qualities they desire to produce, in their lines. This is merely continuing research by a breeder asking other breeders and knowledgeable WL GSD people for their help and opinions. I am looking to BREED not BUY. In my opinion the problem with your dog was NOT all your fault. The right dog, after getting the correct amount of exercise for it's drives would settle down and sleep when their owner is ready to sleep. Sounds like either your dog had too much drive for your situation/ you could not provide enough exercise due to your circumstances. Either way, this was NOT the right dog for you and not totally your fault be cause the breeder knew your circumstances and knew the dog. 
    Even a buyer should not totally trust everything they are told and SHOULD do research into what lines produce what qualities and have what problems for themselves!!

Well, as you probably know, I'm pretty darn fond of the Yoschy lines.  My stud is linebred quite a bit on Yoschy, more than typical, and I have bred him to two different female descendants of Yoschy, so the puppies in turn are linebred Yoschy.  My stud has the so-called off-switch and a very clear head, the females he was bred to are also adequate in that regard.  But, I would have to state that roughtly two out of every eight pups are unable to settle and focus well.  They need to be directly and purposely taught to better suppress their drives, because they are unable to completely master them, or at any time literally shut them off.  That may suit a lot of prospectors for a working animal, but I personally wouldn't breed on that.

Thanks Daryl!! That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

way to much line breeding, you are running the risk of doubling up on negative 1/4 and 1/2 genes there is no way to tell how they will work out, GSD gene pool is very small already I see no advantage only high risk in either way you go.

There is nothing closer than the 4th generation back lol.... I guess you must be a fan of no line breeding what so ever! lol  Line breed is the opposite and I believe I will have a BETTER chance for producing type and that includes work as well as temperament.
LOOK at Crok's pedigree! Go ahead and click on the 8 generations of "line" breeding and see he has hardly ANY!  The least I've seen in any dog going back that far. His gene pool is WIDE open!! Add up the percentages and you will see it would be very hard to match a dog with such an OPEN pedigree!!!
I am a FIRM believer in lining for geno type over JUST going for pheno type!!