Posters reply to AGE, WEIGHT SEX INQUIRY - Page 1

I am using my wife's call name on this board to reply because I can't seem to post with my own. Here goes: To all that guessed…thanks. Many of your responses will help me more than you can imagine. I have not responded to your replies because I knew this breeder would jump the gun the moment I posted this ironic little quiz. He actually made to too easy. He took the bait much quicker than I expected. Everyone here should take specific notice if the fact that I in no way connected Carp Morgan of Fokwulfe Kennels to my posting here. Furthermore, I did not intend to do so because I fully intend to air this situation in a court of competent jurisdiction in the state of California. Mr. Morgan is the one who revealed that he is the breeder that sold me this dog. I think thou doest protest too loudly Mr. Morgan. The responses to this little age, weight, and sex inquiry are going to be very persuasive evidence if I eventually decide hail Him into a California Superior Court to answer my attorney's several causes of action against him. And yes, I have rather easy access to the best this profession has to offer and I have as long a time as necessary and plenty of resources to see to it that the kind of actions that this individual has engaged in as a breeder reaching into this state to sell his dogs is properly scrutinized. First off, this individual was completely untruthful with me when I called him about this dog. I made it known specifically to him that I was looking for a big boned male with a masculine head that would mature into a substantive male. He explicitly told me that this dog was only four months old when I asked him how old he was and that he was going to be a very large masculine male. I actually asked him if the price of the dog was a mistake, and that I had no problem paying the actual value of the dog if it was what he was representing it as. Here is the chronology of events as they actually happened: CONTINUED...

Breeder/Kennel guy Carl Morgan advertised this dog on pedigreedatabase.com for $800.00. Interestingly, he didn't include the standard DOB info in the ad. Also did not have him registered there so potential buyers could look it up. I e-mail the guy to see if the low price is legit. He tells me that it would have been triple that because he is a son of this GSD: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/122736.html I explicitly and very specifically explain that I am looking for a big boned, substantial showline GSD that has a distinctly masculine look and will be an excellent candidate for protection training. I tell him that I am not interested in a cut rate price for anything less, so if he has other dogs that will fit the requirements, I will pay what he is worth. Carl Morgan explains that the only reason this dog is listed at $800.00 is that he (Carl) will be out of town for the month of December and wants to free up space in his kennel. I ask him how old this dog is and he tells me that he is a 4 month old male that is very masculine, big boned, and an excellent candidate for protection work. I overnight him a Money Order for $800.00, make a flight reservation for $220.00 and the deal is on. CONTINUED...

He sends me several shots of this dog, including this pic (that he used to advertise the dog on pedigreedatabase.com) of the dog he represented as 4 months old. I'm thinking in my novice mind that this is a somewhat normal appearance for a 4 month GSD. Whoever said that I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground about how to evaluate GSD's was right, that's why I was relying on Mr. Morgan’s expertise that he repeatedly assured me he had in selecting this particular dog. I call him to find out the weight of the dog for the air shipping price and he tells me he is 6 months old and weighs 30 pounds. I say, SAY WHAAAAT! I tell him I want my money back because this is not what he told me when he sold me the dog over the phone (and through e-mail discussions). He says he will keep $500.00 for a reference fee for another dog that he will help broker for me in the future and mail me $300.00. I figure that I will cut my losses and run from this guy. I e-mail him a confirmation of this arrangement. We e-mails me back and tells me that he will send me the $300.00 when he re-sells the dog. I tell him forget it and that if he is going to keep all of my money, he might as well just send me the dog. Here are a few pics my wife took of this 30 pound 6 month old GSD that I was told was a big boned, masculine headed VA Erasmus van Noort son. Keep in mind, I shelled out a total of $1000.00 for this dog on the representation that he would normally sell for a regular price of $2,500.00+. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010007.jpg http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010007.jpg CONTINUED...

I have not had time to read all of the responses, but from my quick glance, it is apparent that many here thought this was a female dog when they viewed the pictures. I also have inquired with a number of breeders that I have met in the last 8 months and the response from all of them is exactly the same. This dog is and undersized 6 month male that has distinctly female characteristics and many, many faults. Some of these people even told me that the know this Mr. Morgan and are shocked that he would sell me this dog. Here is an example of one of the evaluations I received on this dog: I get this e-mail today from a excellent well respected breeder/trainer that this dog is at best pet quality because: Hi Michael, Conformation faults of your puppy: very feminine looking, not enough substance, underdeveloped male, the head should be stronger and more masculine..Flat whither, short and steep (sloping) croup. The upper arm is short and steep, loose hooks (cow hooked), close behind. Talk to you soon, Many people have chimed in here after hearing only one side of this story from the breeder that sold me this dog. I can appreciate that. But all the negative opinions this board can produce will not change the facts of what will be a very interesting ride in the California courts, should Mr. Morgan continue to refuse to refund my money. CONTINUED..

I could give this dog to one of my relatives as a pet and be done with it because I wont starve if Mr. Morgan keeps the money he took from me for this dog...But I think that it might be time for innocent buyers like me who have the resources and wherewithal to challenge such extremely questionable transactions should stand up and do so. Ask yourself this question: Why won't Mr. Morgan just refund the purchase price of this dog? I only received him on Monday. It has only been a couple of days wherein it has been discovered that the dog is nothing of what I bargained for. If he is truly as reputable as he advertises on his website, why won't he simply just refund the money to an innocent consumer that absolutely did not get what was represented by the seller? If the dog is so good he should have knowledgeable buyers knocking his door down to take it off of his hands. I offered to take only $500.00 of my total $1000.00 payment for this dog, leaving Mr. Morgan with a $500.00 "restocking" fee...to which he replied "I think you are a FUCKING ASSHOLE" and hung up on me. The offer still stands Carl...settle this mess for half of what I paid for this inferior dog and I we can move on. Otherwise, out of pure principle I will seriously consider taking this to the enth degree in a California legal forum and see what kind of punitive damages the think should be granted for this kind of overreaching transaction. CONTINUED...

Finally, I will be taking this dog to the appropriate authorities in my state, along with the AKC confirmation that he is six months old to determine if this dog was properly cared for before it got to me. This dog is literally skin and bone and should weigh at least 20 pounds more to be characterized as a healthy well cared for six month old GSD. He literally went crazy out of his mind when I fed him the first time. Incidentally, to anyone concerned about how I intend to treat this poor animal...rest assured, he will gat all of the care and affection that he deserves while he is with me. The breeders conduct with me is certainly not this innocent dog's fault.

ONE CAN NOT JUDGE THE WEIGHT, SIZE or how a given dog will develop simply by a piss poor photo. You do not even know how to take a photo. In the one photo you referenced I saw the pup has a slightly narrower head than I personally would like. SO WHAT? He is a pup and I have seen more than a few males have heads like this who later developed wonderfully appropriate heads. NOR can one tell the sex of a dog unless you can see the penis or vaginal opening. DARGO, you are the one who supposedly did this deal. Where was your head? Your expertise? Well, after all your posts it is clear you do not know your a...from a hole in the ground when it comes to GSDs. If you sent me such a photo and asked for my opinion on the pup I would have IMMEDIATELY told you I can make NO judgement about the pup. I would have to see it in person, and the person who gave you that idiotic email may not even know one thing about GSDs and good bloodines and conformation, let alone temperament. So you thought you were clear. Maybe you were. Maybe you were not. Carl thought he was sending a dog that met your needs. Clearly he was incorrect. Maybe he was trying to help you, perhaps he really just wanted to sell the dog. But he said he will take the dog back. So now what is the issue? Do not give us this bullshit about suing and lawyers etc. You are the person who bought the dog and did so without looking in person at the dog. You are the one who knows nothing about conformation. No court is going to rule in your favor over this because the issues you feel were misrepresented are items of contention even among experts. But you do not even know that. There is nothing patently wrong about the dog in the photo I saw but it is a piss poor photo and not a photo ANYONE in their right mind could properly judge. Would I buy this pup, probably not, but I know EXACTLY what I am looking for and you do not. Furthermore, NO ONE can tell you that any given pup will make a great protection dog. As others have pointed out here, most of us are people who would eagerly take your side IF you were wronged. At this point, you were not wronged because Carl has agreed to refund your price and pay for the shipping. So what else do you want to waste time on now? Send the dog back. Personally, I have had an issue once with Carl over something else besides a pup, and yes, he can be less than cooperative initially. But in this instance, he has already said he will take the dog back. You are the one who has been unreasonable at this point. No one can know now whether the dog was healthy when sent, or whether he has some undiagnosed problem or whether he has an illness or problem he got once he came to you. NO one in their right mind will say the dog should have weighed anything unless they actually see the dog. Pups are of all sizes and should be kept lean. If you think there is a medical issue, then get verification from several vets. But make sure it is about something other than weight because in the photo I saw, the dog is lean and that is to be expected. He went "crazy out of his mind" when you fed him because he was hungry. He probably was not fed before shipping and that is ALWAYS how people ship dogs who know the trip will be quick. Frankly, I can tell you none of the reputable breeders on this board would ever sell you a dog. You clearly have no experience and should not be getting this breed, or perhaps any breed. Stuffed toys might be more to your liking and they cost a lot less *(unless you buy a Stief - and you probably have no idea about that either). You are damned lucky to have gotten a pup from someone who will take the dog back. All too many would not have refunded a cent simply because they do not give a damn about the pup. At least Carl does care. So send the pup back now. If you want an intermediary here, there are many people who would gladly see that the dog was sent back and you receive your money back.

First of all...it is not the breeder's fault you are an idiot!!!! We do try to steer clear of you kinds of buyers. Seems almost all unknowledgeable buyers are asking HOW BIG IS DOG GONNA BE??? Seriously...you know little. It isn't supposed to be a HUGE dog...read a little more. If you want a huge dog, get a Dane. Next...you will go to an AKC conformation specialist??? Good luck there!!! I personally wouldn't care what they thought...but this still validates you know nothing. You are trying to defame the breeder who is trying to make right. Why is money your point? I would have the buyer pay for shipping back...which is only fair and I believe most breeders agree. Keep the pup out of the battle and maybe find an American line breeder or another breed all together. You are creating something that doesn't need to be created. And good luck with a law suit...you have no grounds whatsoever!!! Send the dog back and look for another. How can you say he will be cared for whe all you have done is bash him...poor dog!!!!

Wanting an evaluation of a puppy of which you are unhappy is a reasonable request. However, I am not happy with how you did it, your approach was NOT reasonable. I feel conned. My response was NOT serious, I thought your inquiry was a game, and maybe there was some trick photography involved in the picture taken. It is really hard to seriously evaluate a dog from a photo even when the dog is standing correctly. Photos can be very misleading even when taken with the best intentions. I did not offer a serious evaluation of a dog I have not seen in person. You do NOT have my permission to use my previous post.