There is no such thing as Dominance in Dogs - Page 1

The title may be misleading, but hopefully sufficiently evocative. 

I met a recently qualified 'Animal Behaviour Practitioner' this weekend. We got to chatting because she was attractive and I like dog people. After a while we arrived at an impass, she believes fervently, and I assume was taught that there is no such this as a dominance structure in dogs, no hierarchy, none of that jazz. Her qualifications are DipCABT NOCN (UK), Cert.CAPBT. I do not know what they mean. I love to learn so I asked to be directed toward some literature. She email me the following reading list: 

Dominance Theory and Dogs, an in depth examination of social dominance and it’s Insidious consequences….and alternatives by James O’ Heare
 
The Culture Clash. A revolutionary new Way of understanding the relationship between humans and Domestic Dogs by Jean Donaldson
 
Dogs, a new understanding of canine origin, behaviour and evolution by Lorna and Ray Coppinger (a must read-he is the world leader on what we know about canine evolution and behaviour).
 
She only sent this through this morning, so I have not yet had time to read these books, but I did find the article that seems to be the root of all this. It is by a Professor Mech and here, is a link to it. I read the article, and I find his conclusions not so well thought through and his reasoning distinctly incomplete. 

Personally it does not at all dispel dominance and all that jazz to me, rather the data and his observation are exactly as I would expect. I would simply draw quite different conclusions. It felt as if he wanted to be controversial and this style of controversial is very popular academically at the moment. 

Why I am posting this here is because there are lots of smart people on here, some who must know about all this stuff, for want of a another non-judegemental term. 

To me it smacks of the attitude you sometimes come across when you hear people saying things like 'I am already dominant just because I feed them'. It feels like it is being controversial to the point of ignorance almost on purpose. What is scary, to my understanding, is that this is taught as part of a curriculum. I'll stop ranting now, and be very grateful for anyone with some insight. 

Leendert

Some people learn about dogs in a classroom or lab and some people learn about dogs by...well...working with dogs.

To say there is no dominance in dogs would be to throw out about 90% of what I learned in university animal behaviour courses. Chimpanzees, baboons, elephants, lion prides all have a very clearly established dominance structure. Why should dogs be any different?

It seems to me that any species of animal that hunts to eat, including chimps and baboons, needs a dominance structure to maintain order.
Dogs will hunt to eat, if given the opportunity.

Joanro, do you mean dominance is same as rank level gaining from or forcing on others?

And it once again proves my point that " book learnin" doesnt necessarily make you that bright.  The most horrifying thing I hear over and over again from University Grads is " when I went to university I learned to think".  Hmmmm. What did you do before that?  ( not to ruffle feathers university grads, i am one also)  Dog training is not what you read about in books or on video.  It is what happens right in front of you.  The best trainers often don't say much. Clearly this woman is not a hands on person.  Her opinion would change mighty quick. She needs to spend some time in the real world.  Just watching pups that are newly born may help her.  They start when they first look for that front teat.

Leendert, IMO you've answered your own question, when you say you 
would draw different conclusions from the same information, & it is
as though Mech wants to be contraversial.

Too often, not just some Behaviorists, but others too, use the variability
in dominance behaviours to deny its existence altogether, as one way
of 'proving themselves right' is to suggest that everyone else is an out-
moded idiot, and/or unnessarily violent in their training methods.  It is a
truism that no two trainers can fully agree, except that a third trainer will
find both of the first two wrong.  [Not to say that I justify the brutal !]

What their approach never seems to allow for is the "horses for courses"
approach, the view that admits there is no one training recipe to suit all
dogs, so we should be prepared to use all the tools in the box to work out
what fits.

Fortunately I do know at least two Behaviourists  who CAN also train; and both
are willing to see the 'grey areas' in behaviour theory.


DipCABT means your friend has a Diploma in Companion Animal Behaviour
Therapy; CertCAPBT  is a Certificate from the COAPE  Association of Pet Be-
haviourists and Trainers,  and I looked up NOCN 'cos I couldn't quite remember
what it stood for, it is the National Open College Network, an accreditation 
body.  Means most of their studying has been distance learning.  Ok as far
as it goes but in recent years I've had the impression of the CENTRE FOR
APPLIED PET ETHOLOGY that almost anybody can be a member if they can
stump up the fee.  It used to mean more, once.  My mate who is what I think of
as a professional, qualified Behaviourist has the following:
a BA(Hons) Post-graduate Diploma, Companion Animal Behaviour Course;
is a Certified Clinical Animal Behaviourist, and a member of the Association of
Pet Dog Trainers;  and gets all her clients through vet. referrals.

I realise academic study isn't th be-all and end-all;  but I tend to argue that you don't
want your surgery done by the nurse, you want your kid taught by the qualified teacher
not the classroom assistant, and you want behavioural advice from a properly trained
practitioner, not someone who's done it in their spare time.  They might actually be very
good, experienced and competant;  so may the theatre nurse or the teaching assistant
... but given the fees they can command, I would quite like someone who has had to
prove their work. 
 

Ibrahim, that's how dominance level is attained in the animal world, usually by force. Watch a herd of bison during the rut, or for that matter, domestic goats during breeding season. Dogs will fight even during the very early weeks of puppy hood to establish pack hierarchy. I think you already know all this ;-)