Oh Lord, demodex !! - Page 1

Recently I was told by a "breeder" a female can only produce the demodex mange.  When I told her that every puppy or dog has 2 sides of a pedigree, she informed that the male will never produce it, only the female.  I tried to explain to her that its not the mange that is the genetic fault, it was the weak immune system that was the genetic fault.  All dogs and puppies most likely have the mite, the reason it surfaces is because the immune system is at a weak point and can not prevent it from breaking out, just as a person's body sometimes can't stop a cold from entering a person's body.  I found out that her stud dog had sire a couple litters that produced demodex.  He was also the sire to the puppy that this entire conversation was about.   It erks me to no end when people try to pass themselves off as ethical and than they try to pull off crap like this.   What is your opinion? 

From what I know, all dogs are basically "born" with demodex. An otherwise healthy dog that demodex just pops out on, it can be related to genetics. However, any stressful situation can cause the dog to get demodex as well, so it isn't always a weak immune system.

Jaggirl47, that is exactly what I was always under the impression.  The puppy we were talking about, was 8mons old fixing to come in heat and changed owners that didn't take the time to gradually change her over to a different food.  She was also a puppy that was pretty much a dog that spent alot of time indoors and than suddenly was put out in a kennel full time.  I am not saying she was neglected, but her life did change completely.  That is plenty stressful enough.  The new owner said it was a generalized case, but the attending vet said something COMPLETELY different as in it being only two very small spots that she attributed to juvenile demodex due to stress.  

Also, I was always told that Red mange was actually scabies.  I have asked many breeders and most agree that is correct and what they knew it to be. However the breeder mentioned in my original thread says red mange and demodex is the same thing. SO WHICH IS THE CORRECT ONE? 

Red mange is another term for demodex. As far as the other mange, sarcoptic, it does pass to people in the form of scabies.

Yes, it can only come from an infected mother within the first week after birth. Cannot be transffered from a healthy mother. Demodex is always a sign of insufficient care. Big red flag when you see that with a breeder. For more info see:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/72005.htm&word=demodex%2cmange

Actually, ALL dogs have the demodex mite and it is transferred from the mom to the pups within the first week of life. Most pups have automatic immunity but some do not. It is also not the sign of insufficient care.

I was trying to direct this thread more towards the fact that the demodex mange is not heredity, but the weak immune system being heredity.   Also, that BOTH MALES AND FEMALE can produce the weak immune system, not just females.  

 " Demodex is always a sign of insufficient care. Big red flag when you see that with a breeder."

Sorry I can not agree with this.  I have seen some otherwise healthy and well taken care of dogs and puppies show signs of demodex.  That is not "ALWAYS" a sign of insufficient care!

Hutchins, you are correct. The mites pass from the mom, but if it is a weak immune system (as suspected in generalized and adult demodex) then it can be inherited from both.

1. Yes, it is true that nearly all dogs have the demodex mite living within their skin, just as nearly all humans have our version living in the folds around our noses.
2. Yes, it is true that pups acquire these mites from their dam while they are still in the nest. The sire has nothing to do with transmitting the mites to his offspring.
3. Yes, it is true that the mite generally doesn't cause any clinical signs of its presence in mature dogs [or humans], and that when clinical signs are seen, it can be a red flag that the animal in question may have a weak or otherwise compromised immune system.
4. Yes, it is also often true the puppies raised in slovenly conditions show evidence of the mites via demodectic mange, but this is due to the stress that such conditions can create in an immature animal whose immune system is still in development.
5. Yes, it is also not unusual for puppies raised in absolutely perfect conditions to break with clinical signs of demodectic mange shortly after it arrives in a new home--again, the result of stress and an immature immune system.
6. Yes, it is true that in some instances, a faulty immune system is genetic in origin, and consequently it's possible for a stud dog to carry the trait and pass it on to his offspring; if a particular type of weakness of the immune system IS hereditary, it would need to be established whether the trait was dominant or recessive and whether one or both parents were carriers -- and good luck with that.

I sure wouldn't disparage a breeder or a breeding animal just because one or more pups in a litter or from that animal broke with demodectic mange as an immature puppy, nor if an adult dog whose immune response was compromised from injury, illness or medical treatment broke with it, either. 

Thanks Hexe, your knowledge is greatly appreciated ND THANKS FOR SHARING.  You just confirmed the point I was trying to get across.  Now, we can only hope that the "knowledgeable" breeder mentioned in my original post will read this and she will stop making excuses for her breeding program by saying males CAN NOT produce weak immune systems, only females pass will produce it.  DUH!!  Maybe if she hears it from someone else, it will soak in!  DUH!!