DVG vs USA - Page 1

what exactly are the difference between dvg and usa. I understand that usa is a breed club. but how does dvg compare member wise. does dvg have a national championship. I've been told that the judgeing isn't as hard as usa. just wondering

Wscott00, what you understand is essentially what it is. D.V.G. is much larger, Germany-based, and world-wide in representation. Several years ago, U.S.c.A. (although much smaller) was the presumed equivilent of D.V.G. and showcased all working breeds. Then a decision was made whereas the U.S.c.A. became a GSD-only group and there was a mass exodus to D.V.G. that occurred virtually overnight. D.V.G. remains an all-breed club for the working dog enthusiast. The nice thing about a D.V.G. meet is that one gets to see several different breeds and how they work in Schutzhund or I.P.O.. While it is dominated mostly by GSD's, Dobies, and Malinious's (makes sense a bit) it is a diverse group. Does U.S.c.A have more difficult judging? Hard for me to say. U.S.c.A. does tend to be more show-line GSD oriented and dominated by a small group of large players. In my opinion the D.V.G. sets the standard for performance criteria and training methods/techniques and are well organized, and the U.S.c.A. tends to be a follower in this regard. I have been a member of both organizations for a long time, and this is just my opinion based upon interaction with both groups. The U.S.c.A. members are typically impressed with the pedigree and appearance first, and the working ability of the dog is somewhat secondary. The D.V.G. group is much more interested in what the dog can do and do well, and if the dog does really well then they will inquire about the pedigree. Others may have much different opinions and that is fine with me. I really wish that since the U.S.c.A. is so determined to be a GSD-only group that they could evolve to the state where they are an F.C.I.-recognised breed club for the GSD and we would have an 100% alternative to the A.K.C.. Perhaps the upcoming involvement of the G.S.D.C.A.-W.D.A. with the A.K.C. for the working dog sport is something that will start an evolution of U.S.c.A. into something like that, if the U.S.c.A. intends to survive. Pipe dream-I know. Bob-O

Yes, DVG has Regionals, Nationals, and World trials. As with any organization, politics are there. I do not know any organization of any diclipline, animal related or not, that politics do not come into play somehow. As far as judging, it seems to be judge specific. I don't think you can generalize one organization has tougher judges then another. Many DVG trials are judged by SV judges. http://dvgamerica.com/ Our decission to go DVG was more based on finding the right training director and club. We were members of USA and WDA. There were no clubs we liked the methods, or people support at. We felt welcome right away at our club. People actually support each other and go cheer members on at various competitions in the area, even if it's a couple hours away. I can't say that's a DVG specific thing, but it is nice to see.

Thanks Bob-O and animules. I think I will look further into DVG from what you have shared, sounds more like my cup of tea.

4pack, It's great at DVG trails to see the different breeds work. Our club has GSD's, Mal's, Dutchies, Rotties, Dobies, and Pit's. I watched a long haired Dachshund get her BH. And everybody cheered. I can't say every club is like ours, but at least the focus is on the dogs ability first and foremost.

Bob O, and Animules, I couldn't have said it any better than you two did. I used to train with a DVG club in the mid 90's with a guy named, Ron Mahoney, who was into Rottewelers then, and also the club training director. I learned a lot about how to handle the tougher dogs with Ron Mahoney in that DVG club. I think Ron is training with Shepherds now, that club was by far the best SCH club I've ever been associated with. I have also been a member of a few USA clubs. My opinion is, that DVG is much more friendly and less cliquishly than some USA clubs. If there were a DVG club in my area I would definitely join. tony

There is this huge misconception about the breed thing - yes, USA has conformation shows and koers for GSDs....But USA allows ****ALL**** breeds to compete in local and regional trials. In the North Americans, and FH championships, in the HOT - look at results, Malis, Rotts, Dobes, Airdales, Boxers, Giant Schaunzers and Bouviers are listed in trials - club and regional in results...there used to two other "national" events - the German Shepherd Dog Championship - spring- and the Schh 3 championship - fall...they were more or less merged, and the Schh3 became GSD only and in the fall....that is the ONLY USA working event that is limited to GSDs only DVG has about 50+/- clubs in the States - USA has over 200.... Cliques within clubs and areas have nothing to do with organizaitonal affiation and everything to do with people...

Interesting, because the same relative values seem to apply to UKC (United Kennel Club) vs AKC (American Kennel Club, as opposed to the values of USA (United Schutzhund clubs of America) to DVG (Deutsche Verband für Gebrauchshundegewesen ? ) That is to say that I see a parallel between the two comparative groups. It's not really that they hold such different values, but somehow it tends to come out that way in the experience of members, especially new members. UKC has long been reputed to be more "friendly" to novices, families, and owner-handled dogs. DVG has a similar atmosphere in many ways, although there are a lot of very keen sports-enthusiasts, but not many show people. On the other end of the scale, AKC and SV-USA show functions usually feature lots of professionally-handled dogs, owned by high-profile breeders, etc. They tend to come off a bit snobbish, I think. These are just different embedded cultures, and probably the explanation goes to money. The bigger bucks can be found in top UScA dogs, really...But not necessarily the better dogs. Anyway, I tend to prefer people-friendly organizations which are more open to newcomers and don't have so much of an inside "set". Does anyone remember WHY USA made their working dog national championship GSD, only? It was because everyone got SOOO ticked off that there was no GSD working champion to breed to and brag about, the year that Gary Patterson won it with a little black mongrel bitch! LOL Looking back, I think she may have been a good part Border Collie. Gary Patterson was a great trainer and he wrote a terrific book on Schutzhund training (one of the first in English, along with author Susan Barwig's book). But his message was that a LOT of dogs can make SchH3 with good handling and training. This is not what people wanted to hear or see when they were basing everything on breeding, and making the GSD the best of the working breeds (Not good to get beat out at the Nationals by a cool little mutt!).

>>>>>the U.S.c.A. is so determined to be a GSD-only group that they could evolve to the state where they are an F.C.I.-recognised breed club for the GSD and we would have an 100% alternative to the A.K.C..>>> That'll never happen. Also DDR-DSH excellent post. Many old USA members forget the history of USA and many new members don't know the history of USA. When comparing the two, people say USA is the major league and DVG is the minor league??? Maybe. Some say when you compare it another way USA is the Wine and cheese snobbish social while DVG is the family Barbeque. USA biggest problem is the Politics, Backstabbing, TD dictatorships, Alterior motives, cliques, etc. Uwe

Uwe, I agree 100% with you. While I cannot speak for all U.S.c.A. or D.V.G. clubs, I will say that the U.S.c.A. groups come off as a more "snotty" crowd while the D.V.G. groups seem to be much more involved with the assistance of new people who are entering the sport. They don't have that "pedigree" hangup, and do not seem to care who is the dog, but what the dog can do. You are correct-"That'll never happen." I think the real reason why is contained in the last sentence of your post. The ongoing pissing contests can't stop long enough for the group of many cliques to evolve into a true breed club. DDR-DSH, thanks for the trip to the past. I remember very well when that happened. I could not remember Gary Patterson's name, but when I saw it in your post I remembered the events exactly. Actually, I thought the work done by that mutt was neat! Bob-O