Brindle German Shepherd Dog - Page 1

I don't mean to start an argument but I am curious given a conversation I had on returning to the USA from spending five years in europe/

Do move if this is in the wrong area. But I am puzzled.

Does the brindle GSD still exist?

I mean almost all black GSDs are recessive black and unless I am mistaken recessive black {a} should override kbr [brindle].

Also if - there's an old reference "chart" for breeding sables to bi-colors, etc but I can't find it if someone could kindly give me the link - I remember correctly recessive black probably has more influence than originally thought. After all, correct if wrong, are not the true dark Black Sables considered / proven to be recessive black + agouti co-dominant factored?

I mean here
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=583859&pagen=4

Shows a bizarre looking sable pup. Everyone should know that sables change throughout more or less until their majority so it goes without say that the color was unlikely to remain as it was. Is it possible that brindle is indeed being hidden by other colors?

I mean what exactly are tar marks and stripping of sables? Are these a sort of bizarre "brindle" carried over from years previous.

Also, in having come back from the Czech republic, I saw some old working line / patrol line bi-colors which on closer inspection had brindle-like looks to their tan. Is it possible that the brindle just exists and due to the high inbreeding of certain [and some popular] american / british lines it's simply not apparent.

I mean
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=452944

Comes from clean saddle-blacks [black & tans] and yet his markings are obviously smudged.

So does the brindle still exist? Is it there and we simply don't want to say it.

Brindle would not be hidden by recessive black.

*Hunts for like button*

Agreed

That is the most moronic response I've gotten to a justifable question in a long time.

Care to explain or just whine?


It is a known fact that dominant K black is an introduced gene into GSDs from an outside source - anyone that says otherwise doesn't know the breed... while recessive black {a} which acts the same as dominant black is and was the original "black" of the breed. Black is dominant over all other colors and that would include recessive black dogs.

White GSDs were - for example - in the breed until the German army overtook the german based clubs. It's a known fact that white was an originating color, they aren't from crossbreeds [though some so-called experts try to say so] with the white factor eventually being isolated into the "white shepherd"

Given as, if I remember correctly, it is generally considered that true black sables found from DDR / Czech lines is due to a co-factor between agouti [aw] and recessive black [a]. So if it happens there, there is likely possibility that it happens elsewhere.

Likewise if a breed is bred specifically for a particular pattern one usually doesn't see odd things unless they literally open their eyes. This dog is a pure blooded Wheaten Terrier they are always considered to be wheaten in coloration -- a european breeder from pedigreed dogs eventually came up with this black & tan puppy which became a black & silver/tan dog.
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb477/KuroOokami1/BlackandTan.png

There is proof that the black & tan was eventually removed from dobermans by people breeding for less and less than.
 

So just because you haven't seen anything or don't want to believe it - and unless you can justify your comments with something more than ignorance with a biased belief founded on nothing - kindly don't respond.

Can I guess that it is because recessive black in GSD is a pattern and a color. Brindle is a color only, Even though ithe color is a pattern itself? Is that correct? So it would be one or the other? 

Bee I believe brindle is a dominant gene where black is a recessive. And this dominant black gene, I have a hard time with that. Sure those Russian people say they have it and are producing black showlines that I have looked at the pedigrees and I say it is impossible UNLESS there is black farther back in the pedigree then what I am able to find out. I know a recessive gene can come back as far as 7 generations cause it has personally happened to me, but I think they can come back farther. I prefer to get my info from experts i.e. Willis and until I am proven wrong I will stick with those opinions.

http://www.genetics.org/content/176/3/1679.full

http://www.genetics.org/content/176/3/1679.full

Wow, that's more than I can deal with at the moment. I need a synopsis... until then... .

 http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/brindle.html

But if you read through the other link and the one I just posted never is a GSD mentioned. In some breeds black is dominant. It is not in the GSD, it is a recessive. The only way you can get a black puppy out of 2 colored--other than black--parents is if both of them carry the black recessive. Simple genetics.................

For interested folks, here is the pedigree of the above mentioned pup http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=708869 . She is still with me. There are no obvious signs of brindle markings. She is of sable color (cream-black tipped) and might carry bi-color, like her sire.