Overvaccinating: Cause of Immune Deficiencies? - Page 1

How do you guys feel about this? Anyone have proof of this in their dog or someone you know's dog?

Read the following: http://www.videxgsd.com/are_boosters_necessary.htm http://www.videxgsd.com/boosters_three_years_is_fine.htm

I don't know if vaccinations are the cause of immune deficiencies, but I do know that an immune-deficient dog has a difficult time coping with any vaccination. You want to protect your dog from disease, so vaccinate--and almost kill him in the process. If you don't actually give him the disease, the stress of the shock to his system takes it's toll (further depleting his immunity). First sign of distress is usually an allergic reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cause or causes of immune deficiency could also make a good topic. Is this passed on to offspring, or is it acquired right after birth (something, I've begun to question)? Or, could it be both? The crucial time for a newborn is the FIRST COUPLE of days, suckling their mother's milk. Best immunity is the colostrom taken in at this time. If the dam isn't nursing her pups, and you supplement--does this hurt the pups immunity later on? And, if there is too big a litter, do all the pups get there fair share of that beneficial colostrom? Do breeders, when they have two litters on the ground, ever put pups from a huge litter on a female who has a small litter---thus, again, depleting those pups of the first colostrom? Personally, to me--colostrom is the key. Anything that affects the quality and quantity in those first few days, could make all the difference down the road. The health and age of the female, stress levels, and size of litters come into play.

That is very interesting as I just recently had two pet beagles in for their annual booster (they've always received their vaccinations on time) and one went into an allergic reaction (this never happened on her last shots) and they had to rush her to the back and work on her to bring her back. Talk about scarey! And the other beagle ended up testing positive for lyme disease the same day! I realize vaccinations are important but, because of vaccinations both of my dogs are in trouble. This doesn't mean I will stop vaccinating but, the one beagle will have to be pre treated before any vaccination in the future and then, may still have a negative (hopefully not fatal) reaction. I understand there is a lot of debate regarding the lyme shot, however, we live in a spot well populated with deer (a must for flea/tick protection) therefore, what I believed a neccessity for the lyme vaccine. The beagle that had the allergic reaction...also reacted to a bee sting when I first brought her home...so, perhaps she is immune deficient?

I'm not sure anyone can provide any proof positive so cannot offer anything other than personal experiences. Since 1958 I've owned and bred a lot of dogs. My early dogs were vaccinated annually with the DHL combo which later included parvo. Rabies were given every 3 years to the dogs I showed. The kennels dogs did not get rabies. I boostered these dog annually with the DHL combo until they reached 7 years of age, then I no longer vaccinated any for anything. I never vaccinated one dog against lyme, kennel cough or any of the other diseases some vaccinate against today. All these dogs but one lived to be 12 to 15 years old. Not GSD's another large working breed. When I got my first GSD, he had the regular puppy series plus a rabies at 4 months. When it came time for his DHL booster, he got another rabies and one every year thereafter for a total of 8 rabies vaccines by the time he was 7 years old. This dog suffered from inhalation allergies from the time was was 3 months old. At 4 years I needed to board him and the kennel I normally took him to was full. The new kennel required a kennel cough vac so he was given an intranasal vaccine. 3 weeks later he developed a chronic bacterial sinusitis where he sneezed mucous and blood. He had 2 surgeries, cultures, biopsies and after over 2 years of intensive and expensive antibiotics, he was still sneezing mucous and blood. We carried towels where ever we took him. At 7 years of age he developed lymphosarcoma. We had him treated, but he passed on in 6 months. My daughter's cocker was bombarded her entire life with every vaccine known to man. Her last series was when she was 9 years old. - a DHL/parvo combo, lyme, kennel cough, corona and rabies all on the same day. Within a week she developed a fever and a sterile abcess at the site of one of the shots. Her lymphnodes enlarged and 3 months later she was diagnosed with lymphoasarcoma and died 6 months later. A friend with a sheltie had a similar experience with her over-vaccinated dog. He only lasted 3 months after being diagnosed with lymphosarcoma. Do I think over vaccinating causes or aggrevates autoimmune problems in some dogs? Absolutely. Do I have proof? Only what I've just written. I also think that vets need to start to follow the most recent vaccination protocols and stop handing out annual vacs like they were candy. So far Blitz has had his puppy series, a booster at 16 months and a rabies at that time. 3 years later he got a rabies booster (PA law), and a DHL/parvo booster. I do not vaccinate my dog against lyme, corona, or kennel cough and prefer to not have lepto included in his combo vac. He will be 5 next month and is done with his DHL/parvo unless a titer in 3 years shows his immunity to be below the protective level which I doubt it will be. When we had our GSD treated for lymphosarcoma the very first thing the chemo vet said was - no more vaccinationsfor this dog; not now, not ever. I think you need to customize a vaccination program according to the needs of your individual dogs. The homeboys and girls really don't need the same protection as do the dogs that attend trials or other events where multiple dogs are present. The ideal situation is to titer each dog prior to vaccinating assuming your budget can afford it. Most vets around here discoursage titers by sharging outrageous prices so most with multiple dogs just roll over an let their dogs get every vaccination known to man. BTW some are researching the possibility that vaccines play a major role in dogs developing diseases like epilepsy, some forms of cancer, renal and liver disease, and thyroid malfunction.

I agree with Blitzen. I have always given puppy shots and Rabies because of the law req. After that, not much. Never vaccinated for lime and I have have never had any issues with my dogs. NO allergies, reactions or the like. I also have neer lost a pup or dog to any disease that has a vaccine. I figure why vet them if there is no problems??? I don't see the Doc if I don't have a issue myself.

Thanks - as you guys know, I have been having issues with my female for over a year now. Fred Lanting and another very knowledgeable person who works for Canine Caviar dogfood lines (I had never heard of it, but it looks like good quality stuff - check it out http://www.caninecaviar.com )mentioned the over-vaccinating thing to me and I looked up her shot record and she was actually vaccinated quite a bit during that time (as the vet had a policy that would not allow her to be boarded overnight without Bordatella, DHLPP and Rabies boosters)...this might have contributed to the immune deficiency and her decline, as she was on antibiotics (which can also contribute to taxing an immune system) 3 weeks prior to.

Am I crazy? When my immune deficient boy was in some difficulty (2x's in 20 months), antibiotics is what brought him round.

LMH your not crazy, don't vaccinate him anymore unless you absolutly have to. Like I said I only do puppy shots at 3 week intervuls and Rabies at as long as I can push it, usually 6-9 months. I don't do it right at 4 months as city requires. They can kiss my butt.

Ascribing causes to conditions when one does not have the science behind it to support one's conclusions is lame and irresponsible. Furthermore, thinking like this actually can hinder finding out the REAL issues behind any condition. There are NO real studies that show the associations so many of you want to link together. I won't waste time trying to help you understand the immune system, antigen/antibody responses, how they develop etc. But, just in case there is one rational person who reads this, a new case study is of particular note: J Vet Intern Med 2006;20:818-821 Lack of Association between Repeated Vaccination and Thyroiditis in Laboratory Beagles "Conclusions/significance: There was no evidence to support an association between routine vaccination and thyroiditis at postmortem examination in beagle dogs after repeated vaccination" This is just one such study, and there are others, including one done at Purdue Vet School which looked into associations between vaccines and every condition under the sink. There are MANY reasons possible for most of the situations people ascribe to vaccinations. In dogs, just as in humans, there are always a small number of reactions to a given vaccine, and in rare cases, those reactions can result in anaphylaxis. I give up on this topic. Maybe we should simply go back to the dark ages in how we deal with disease.