***Aggressive OR not???*** - Page 1

I own a 5-month old, male purebred german shepherd named Buddy. I would like if someone who has complete knowledge and experience of the breed to help me out a bit,

It started when my mom took him to the vet today and was shocked when he tried to nip and  become excited when the vet tried to examine him. The vet said "never in her 20-40 years(or whatever she said..)of working as a vet never had a dog attack her like that. She told my mom to fill out a consultation behavioral form, and even suggested putting him down.

-When I heard of this, I was totally upset and offended, I have tried on numerous occasions doing "fake vet checkups" with myself, touching his ears, mouth/teeth, feet, belly, etc., I admit, he does get mouthy and excited, but never bites down hard or nips, and when he does get mouthy I tell him a firm "NO", and when he stops, I do it again, he stays nicely, and I reward him with a treat, and has now learned to stay good.
-He does like to bark at people/kids and dogs, but I can easily calm him down, and when and if they pass again, he pays no attention to them.(If he gets close to other dogs, he does really well, he socializes with them good, and never got into a fight with another dog). with kids and people, and socializing with them he does pretty well, he sniffs their hands and doesnt think much of it afterwards. If there tends to get too much people he likes to shy away.

-I told my mom that he just needs more socialization and more work on training. I understand he has some "kinks" we have to work on. In my opinion, he doesnt need to be "put down"(Im still offended by that remark),and he doesnt need to be evalutated(the vet told me it was a questionare on the internet, but aparently you have to pay for it...) because I am not giving up on him. If someone can help me, I would grately appreciate it.

Thanks again,

Sorry, meant to post in GSD Forum.

Granted, I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, but it is a RARE 5 month old pup that is actually aggressive.  A vet that is so traumatized by the antics of an unruly, mouthy 5-month old puppy as to seriously recommend euthanasia is NOT a vet I would be visiting with my dog again. 

I'm a vet tech, and worked in private practice for a number of years, and in my experience it's not unusual for pups and young dogs to squirm and try to be mouthy when examined--but generally speaking, if the owner is unable/unwilling/uninterested in controlling the dog's head while the vet examines the rest of the dog, then a technician would do so instead.  If your mother wasn't managing your pup, the vet should have asked one of their staff to assist her, instead of making extreme suggestions like putting the dog down.

In the meantime, continue to work with your pup by doing the 'fake vet checkups'-- and doing them with the dog both on the floor, and up on a table, so he gets used to each scenario. Try treating him AS you're touching him--one hand feeds the treat, the other hand checks paws, ears, teeth, etc., so he never gets the opportunity to actually nip or mouth you, as he'll be busy eating. 

I do have to wonder if your mom might need help handling your pup when he's at the vet--maybe you ought to go with them the next time he has an appointment (with a new vet)?

That your pup gets 'shy' when there's a large number of people around isn't exacty the desired response, but it can most likely be worked through, using treats and/or toys in a way that will have him associate large groups with nothing but good things.  Keep up with the socialization efforts you've already been working on, too.

Can't add much to Hexe's very good advice, except when you rehearse the 'vet check' scenario, can you
sometimes get a friend or someone else to do the 'handle-all-over' bit, to get your dog used to being
touched by someone other than yourself ?  Good luck, you are doing ok. 

Hexe's done a good job in her advise, however, i'll add that you properly vet-check it's ears. I've seen a friend's dog that wouldn't allow anyone, other than it's owner to touch his head. On the other hand, you need real socialisation for him. My bitch was so shy that she urinates at any attempt at touching her, but just after 2-3 days of applying advise from this forum, today, my bitch's a good ambassador and a reference point for others. Just continue, put-in your best, you'll see the result. Good wishes

My question is who is the handler for this dog?  You say you have done fake vet exams but your mom took the dog to the vet.  I am not sure what kind of relationship your mom has with what seems to sound like your dog....but I would think that if it was my dog I would want to be there at the vet since I have a stronger bond with my dog than anyone else in my household.  Young puppy is still learning.  Hexe also makes mention of this. 

I am not a trainer, but have some personal experience with a dog that is aggressive.

To be on the safe side buy a muzzle for your pup and slowly and gradually get him used to it,,

Make it fun with treats as not to have it made into a stressful or unpleasant experience. Don't rush the process..

My male doesn't particularly like the muzzle, but he tolerates it well. He has worn a muzzle in public ever since he was about 8 months old or so..

I watched a video with a clicker technique that helped.. I will look for the video and post it.

Not to say your pup is aggressive, but it never hurts to have your dog comfortable wearing a muzzle just incase,,In this day you can't be too careful ...Don't worry how it looks to have your dog muzzled in public. Its for your dogs safety as much as it is for others,,

People who do own aggressive dogs have to take every precaution to avoid a bite. Better to be safe then sorry,,

Don't give up on Buddy, find a trainer familiar with GSD and don't take random advice that goes against your gut feelings...

If I have made an error in my advice I hope that the more knowledgeable with correct me..

Good luck!!..

Deanna..:)

I would not muzzle a pup. Hexe is right, get a different vet. I have found that female vets tend to over react when they don't understand an animal. Sounds like you have a good pup and are doing a good job with him.

YOU should be only one taking your puppy to the vet.  YOU should be that dog's be all end all.  You might also want to try those fake vet drills at a strange place (to puppy) with a stranger (to puppy not you) acting as vet and observe his reactions.

Right, blame it on the women, thanks Joan. I knew a male vet that actually used a kitty straight -jacket and still got himself sliced. Took the same "wild" kitty to a different male vet, who took one look, and with my permission, knocked him out with gas.