One of the worst cruelties to dogs - Page 1

Every day we read about terrible acts of cruelty toward dogs. They are beaten, thrown off rooftops, forced to fight, starved to death, and so on. All of this is horrible, but there is another, less obvious kind of cruelty that kills thousands of dogs.
 
That cruelty is an owner’s refusal to live up to their responsibility to properly and humanely discipline and control their dog. “Discipline” does not mean hitting or kicking the dog or otherwise harming the dog. With a dominant dog, however, some form of physical correction will often be needed—a prong collar, e-collar, citronella spray, a simple scruff shake, body blocking, and so on—all properly and humanely used.
 
When the owner does not behave responsibly and properly discipline and control her dog, the results are just as lethal to the dog as neglect and abuse. The owner unwittingly teaches the dog that the dog is the boss and has the right to discipline the owner and other dogs in the household by biting them. The predictable result: A dog that is euthanized or dumped on the streets or in the pound because someone got bit; or another dog that is savagely torn up or killed by the dominant dog; or a dog that is shot and killed by a neighbor for going after livestock.
 
Owners who do not live up to their responsibilities to their dogs by disciplining them almost always claim that they want to be kind to the dog. But this “kindness” is a cruelty that often kills the dog. The idea that “all dogs need is love” is deadly. Real love is tough love when needed. It means getting off your duff and doing right by your dog by making him mind, even when that’s inconvenient or difficult.
 
I recently spent almost a thousand dollars to rehome a splendid GSD that the owner could no longer keep. I repeatedly told the new owner that this dog, although wonderful, was dominant and that the owner would have to be very firmly in charge. The previous owner had no problems with the dog’s dominance because he was firmly and humanely in charge.
 
Sadly, this GSD’s life will almost certainly be tragically cut short. Her new owner does not want to discipline her, and the dog—as I told the owner she would if the owner did not properly discipline her—is becoming increasing bratty and starting to rule the household. The dog is now physically threatening the other dog (a male), who is one of the nicest GSDs I’ve ever met.

Eventually there will be a bloody fight, the owner or another person will get bitten trying to break it up, and a wonderful GSD who deserved so much better will die. She is only two years old! There is nothing wrong with her. She is beautiful, smart, sassy, confident and social. She has no “issues” of any kind. But she needs a leader and she doesn’t have one.
 
This is also horribly unfair to the owner’s other GSD, who is suffering because his owner refuses to protect him.
 
I recently spoke with the new owner and recommended a non-violent, painless correction that would stop the new dog’s threats to her other dog and help her get control over the new dog. She assured me that she would use this. But now she is soliciting advice about this correction, in the hope that someone will tell her it’s cruel, thereby giving her an excuse not to live up to her responsibility to discipline her dog. I guarantee that some “all-positive” person will be happy to oblige with the advice the owner seeks. Of course, the “all-positive” person won’t be there when the dog experiences the “positive” experience of being killed.
 
It’s like watching a train bear down on a wonderful dog that is tied to a railroad track and being completely unable to help the dog.

Humans are usually the problem and these animals suffer when it would be more humane to simply put them down.

TAKE THE DOG BACK, THEN, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!

If you can see that this placement is not working out, figure out a way to reclaim the dog yet allow the owner to save face--tell the woman whatever you need to tell her that doesn't make her feel like she's a bad person (if you piss her off you have no chance to get the dog out of there). If the woman is soliciting advice from you and others, she knows there's a problem, and she may be relieved if you offer to take the dog back--even if you just take it back 'for some additional training', maybe?

There's a way to stop this trainwreck. 

Two Moons, there is no reason at present to kill this dog. She has never bitten anyone, dog or human. Her dominance is not in the least bit excessive. She is appropriately happy and confident. I have trained dogs for 30 years, and she is one of the best dogs I've ever seen. That's what makes this situation so sad.

The dog's owner is doing everything she can to teach this dog that the dog is in charge, all in the name of "love" and "kindness." This can only end tragically for the dog--as it does for most great dogs. The impending disaster is completely preventable, but the owner refuses to do it.

Hexe, I am not a rescue group. I do not foster dogs. I do not adopt out dogs. I have no place to take this dog. All I did was pay for the dog's vet bills and transport the dog to the new owner.

If you can take the dog and get her a great home, please let me know and we'll see what we can do. However, there is a very high risk that any new home will also do the lethal "love and kindness" routine with the dog. It's an epidemic that is killing thousands of dogs.

BTW, this dog does not need harsh treatment. She just needs an owner who is a leader and doesn't tolerate any guff from the dog. The new owner is a very nice person. She just doesn't get it.

How hearbreaking! I can't stand mamby pamby owners who treat a dog like a baby and then cry because the dog is a mess and they have to surrender it or put it down. Just sickens me to watch a grown woman cry when her dog gets a much deserved snap of the leash or heaven forbid, a rough shake. Take that dog back and find an owner that doesn't want a baby waby smooshie face pet but one who appreciates a GSD. It's only fair to the dog. I don't care if it's fair to the idiot involved. Tell her you made a mistake and the real owner is claiming the dog...whatever it takes!!! Where are you located. Surely there is a GSD rescue in the area and you can get the dog to them.

DebiSue, I appreciate your concern, but the GSD rescue group in my area is a horror. A few examples of how they work: Selling ("adopting out") two adult unneutered male GSDs to a man who threw them in the open bed of his pickup truck (untied and uncrated) and drove off to his Mississippi home 800 miles away; adopting out a GSD known to be violently cat aggressive to a man who asked about cat aggression because he took care of his mother's cat at times (the group lied and said the dog was fine with cats, and the dog killed the mother's cat); then adopting the cat-aggressive GSD, who was known to be not right in the head, to a couple with many children for neighbors (the dog tore off a neighbor child's ear and was killed); adopting out a GSD known to have cancer to a heartbroken couple who had just put down their elderly GSD (the group told them the dog was healthy, and she died a month later in her new home).

And, again, any new owners for this dog will most likely feel sorry for her and decide that all she needs is "love and kindness," leaving the dog just as badly off.

I've been doing what I can to help dogs for 30 years, and I've seen every nightmare. There are no good solutions in a situation like this. I can only hope that the new owner--who posts frequently on PDB--will read these posts and finally understand how much harm she is doing to a wonderful dog, and to her other wonderful dog.

It's like refusing to discipline a child--letting him torment his siblings, act rude and disrespectful to his parents, refuse to do what he's told, and so on. Even a really decent child will likely be ruined by this kind of abuse--and it is abuse. This does not mean children (or dogs) should be hit or otherwise physically abused. But the parent had better be the one in charge.

GSDsRock

So who was responsible for 'placing' the dog with this owner?  I respect that you did your part by providing transport, but if a placing doesn't work out there is surely someone on the 'placement' end to also 'take responsibility' when things don't work out.? There has to be, otherwise this is how these unsatisfactory situations can end.  I was once responsible for placing a dog unwittingly with an unsatisfactory owner, outside of the rescue system. The worst thing I ever did, and a mistake I would never make again. But, though I couldn't take her in myself I got her back after a long fight, getting a lot of outside help and a rescue place for her and eventually into the right home. My mistake, but I fixed it.

There are a lot of people that can help with rescue on this board, and if this is such a disaster I would do my best to try and get their help to fix this situation. Get a place lined up for her and get her back. Then figure out how best to rehome her. It sounds as though she is with the wrong person, I agree with you there.

OoooooKaaaay, I see what this is all about. 

This is about triodegirl, Trigger, and the young bitch you arranged for her to adopt, Maya. 

Do you REALLY think that posting a passive-aggressive commentary like this on here is going to be of any help in the situation? 

If the situation is as you've described, then yes, triodegirl needs to step up her game and stop babying Maya.  Frankly, I strongly believe that ANYTIME someone obtains a new dog that's over 6 months of age, they NEED to enroll the dog in an obedience class right away so that the class structure will help in establishing the hierarchy between owner and new dog.  This is even more critical if there's other dogs already established in the home. 

Triodegirl, if Maya is bullying Trigger and you're permitting it to happen, shame on you--Trigger doesn't deserve that, and you owe it to him to put Maya in check.  If you're having problems doing so, or you aren't comfortable with what GSDRocks has suggested, then you know you've got access to tremendous resources on this site--present the problem here, and get a discussion started so you can get some various options on working through these issues.

GSDRocks, no, I don't have the ability to either adopt Maya or to even foster her, as the last dog I agreed to foster is now here for the rest of his life, after I learned he has discoid lupus and therefore is for all intent and purposes unadoptable, as the illness, his size (100#) and his age (8 yrs) combined don't tend to attract people looking for a dog to adopt...and now that he's settled in here, Max has made it clear that he's really not in favor of any other dogs being permanently unwelcome in his eyes for more than a 24 hour time frame, so I can't even babysit my friend's dogs now.   

Abby Normal, dogs change ownership all the time without anyone being responsible for a "placement." The dog was originally advertised for sale. She was never at a rescue group. The original owner could have done whatever he pleased with her, and the dog was in a very bad situation because of the owner's personal circumstances. I have frequently facilitated ownership transfers, usually by providing financial help and free training, and they generally go quite well. I have saved a lot of dogs over the years, dogs that ended up in very happy homes. Foster-adopt is not the only way to save dogs. Also, anyone who assumes that a dog is "safe" or better off with most rescue groups hasn't been inside many of them. There are some great ones, but many of them harm a lot of dogs while they rake in the cash.

Hexe, I am stunned that you would try to embarrass the new owner by attempting to identify her. I help a lot of dogs, so there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that I’m describing a particular person. It is hardly "passive aggressive" on my part to try to spare the new owner embarrassment.

It’s interesting that some posters have decided that the villain here is the one person who put her money where her mouth is and actually did something to help the dog, who is still better off--for now--than she would have been with the original owner.

I have nothing further to add. I am too busy working with dogs to waste time here so people can take cheap shots at me. This is my final post on this matter. Slam away, but I’m gone. If you can’t find a better target, shame on you. And if you really want to help, please post some arguments for humane discipline that might convince the new owner. She can't take the dog to obedience classes, for personal reasons that are none of PDB's business, and she really doesn't need to. She just needs to discipline the dog at home. Again, she is a fine person. She just doesn’t get it. She is otherwise providing excellent care for the dog, but this problem will become lethal to the dog if it is not fixed.