SL puppy conformation youtube video - has it gone too far? - Page 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T1LjkGP091g

Someone just sent me this. A hypothetical question - if you bought a puppy from a top SL kennel (using VA dogs) and it had conformation like this, would you be upset, surprised, shocked or OK with it? 

This is not the case here, this has attracted some attention in the UK, and I personally think it is ghastly, and I did not want to watch it more than once. I am just trying to get a feel in my mind for what is now the 'norm' or accepted in SL breeding, or whether others feel that this is just not right. I thought the goal was to move away from overangulation.

Would not be ok with it.  I have pups here from one of the top SL kennels. None look like this and none have this topline.  It is not the norm and many top breeders do not accept this.  BUT there are some who do.  It is the purchaser who ultimately decides what they will or will not accept.

I would not buy a puppy that looked like that. I just don't don't get it!  That poor puppy looks freakish to me with the roached back and extreme angulation. Many of the adult dogs at that kennel have similar structure. Maybe someone has an explanation as to why this is happening...  Thankfully not all SL dogs look like this, but it is my understanding that those dogs that are less extreme are not winning in the show ring. True or not?

Thanks Brynjulf

What got me to thinking particularly was how many people import 'sight unseen' from European kennels. Now if you look at the breeding dogs being used you would no doubt be thinking of a top flight puppy, and maybe even purchasing a puppy as part of your foundation stock, or future breeding plans.  Then as your pup develops, this poor pup is what you have.  Then I was wondering how you would be feeling.  That was the thought process behind  my question, that you hadn't seen the pup before you bought it.  

Pretty sad imo

Well the buyer should have been able to see a video of this puppy at least, if it was bought sight unseen then they might have to let the puppy grow up and then see what he looks like, does not look like a very good age for evaluation;  however, do not want to make any excuses for this type of structure or movement;  wait and see would be my choice.  Is it a male?  Cause as you all know they go through some god awful growing spurts and maybe, just maybe that is his case.  ??  You will read time and time again the people that do not get to see and handle their pups before buying;  really not a good idea and he is probably a good example of that.  JMO  Nan

That's awful! Why would you be proud of that? I'd be extremely upset if I bought a dog like this, but none of the dogs really have good looking hindlegs. They're all a little down in their hocks, not as bad as the pup, but still not what I'd want. No way I'd touch it.

The pup's hocks are particularly bad;  the adult's are not much better.  There are normal hocks among the 
other dogs in the kennels in the background.  I've heard about loose hocks and phases of puppy growth,
but none of the dogs I was hearing referred to look as bad as this.  The only place I've seen hocks that
weak is on this board, pictures of pups in USA and Asia.  MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH DIETARY PROBLEMS.
I have still not seen as bad a case as this in the UK, so I really would not attempt to guess whether / how
much they'll improve as the dog grows up.

It is certainly not usual in the litters of puppies, show lines and others, which I have been around in the last
four decades  (although I have not seen many lately - but still, of those few I have, none walked like that.)

Its not attractive; it does not appear particularly healthy (although I say that with caution, as I am still not
aware of any medical condition that has been fully PROVED to be as a direct result of this type of construction
fault.)  I don't think I can see ANYBODY Judging at UK Shows who would place a dog who moved as badly as
that, whether it is temporary or not. Most exhibitors I know would, I am sure, not have the front to take such
a dog to a Show in the first place.  It worries me that this video was taken at Kennel Gim, and we have seen
a number of imports to the UK and Ireland from there;  none to my knowledge with this problem,
but ya never know, do ya?

All the dogs I bought I did not see them in person, I was either sent pictures and or short videos, it isn't abnormal to buy a dog unseen, not all buyers travel overseas to see the cat or dog they want to buy. A breeder should be honest in telling the buyer a sincere description of the dog/puppy h/she's selling, but that is not the common nowadays, a breeder should honestly answer all buyer's questions with accuracy. It isn't stupidity on behalf of the buyer, trusting is the natural attitude.
I wouldn't be happy to receive a puppy that runs and walks on its hooks, no matter what age or stage it's going through, it's not normal and not healthy, no puppy should need special care and or attention, it should be well built and healthy enough to grow naturally and survive in normal environment conditions. I don't think any dog enthusiast or breeder can defend breeding hook walkers or justify it deep in his/her heart, it isn't right and it is cruelty to the pup/dog.
Breeding is not a hobby for all breeders, most breeders are doing it for business, no matter how often you hear breed betterment, many breeders do breed without having a purpose other than making some money and enjoy themselves a bit.
My experience with buying puppies from Europe, most of it is not very good, some breeders deceive you and do not tell the truth, some do not tell you the whole truth, some big names would answer a 1000 words of questions with few words, till now no European breeder, big or small name ever asked me "what are you going to do with the dog?", no questions about showing, titling, working the dog etc. It's business, they are selling a product. What to do with a not very good pup?!!!,Dump it on a overseas buyer, why loose mony and give it for free to a local national!!
Just for the record the only time I was denied a puppy was by a Canadian breeder, I told her we do not have show ring in Jordan, she told me this is a show quality puppy and I want her to be shown and titled. The bitter fact is breeding is more of business than a hobby and in some if not quite few cases it turned into a dirty one.

Ibrahim

This is sad and not normal , feel for these dogs wonder if they in pain , would never buy a puppy nor adult like that.