Health Issues in spayed/neutered Animals - Page 1

I thought I would start a new thread from the "one testicle" one in regard to the pro's and con's of keeping dogs intact versus spaying/neutering. If anyone has any valid research with credentials regarding the positives of dogs remaining intact, and also if spayed or neutered, please post. I belong to a number of boards and email lists that are spending alot of time discussing health issues. If we are able to trust the common companion home to be responsible to not breed the dogs we place/sell them, there seems to be a some strong documentation on dogs living longer healthier lives remaining intact. There are some instances that if a dog is not bred or if a female is allowed to have heat seasons, some Vets feel this raises the increase to certain medical conditions as well... What are your experiences? I am going to share some info i have from 2005 on the behalf of keeping dogs intact. (quoted) There are a number of adverse health problems that have been linked to spay/neuter in dogs and are documented in the Vet Research h medical literature. One will not find any mention of these adverse impacts in the pro spay/neuter propaganda that commonly comes from breed rescue groups, animal rights groups, animal welfare groups and sadly veterinary medical recourses aimed at the the laymen. Contrary to the common claim, the risk of prostate cancer in dogs is not reduced with neutering. Some published studies showed an increase risk of prostate cancer in neutered males [1-3] Two of the most recent studies show a 4 fold increased risk of prostate cancer in castrated dogs [2,3] The risk of osteosarcoma, a bone cancer with a far worse prognosis than testicular cancer, doubles with spay/neuter dogs[4]. Neutering in the first year of a dogs life was found to be associated with an increased lifetime risk of osteosarcoma in male and female rotties of a factor of 3-4 [5]. [Rotties were the only breed examined at this depth; the increased risk with spay/neuter likely affects other breeds too] Spay/Neuter in dogs is also associated with a 3-4 fold increased risk of hypothyroidism[6] a doubled risk of obesity [7] as well as an increased risk of splenic[8] and cardiac hemangiosarcomas [9] diabetes (in males)[10] fatal acute pancreatitis (in females) [11] cranial cruciate ligament rupture [12] urinary incontinence [13,14] and geriatric cognitive impairment (in males) [15]. These are all documented in the veterinary medical research literature. If anyone would like to see the stats with the Vet reference of these, please email me the reference number that is found above numbered [1-15]

Great !!! Try this on... I have 4 pups with law enf. officers 4 of 4 are females, and 3 of 4 of them were exposed to males during they're first heat, MMMM imagine my disgust, No they did not get bred but we did not know at first weather or not mating had occurred, I was so sick to my stomach when this happened as all of them had been cautioned that the best kennel will not keep a male from getting to her when she is in season, That she must be kept indoors and only outdoor when on a leash, None of them beleived me and thought that a 6 foot fence was "good enough" WRONG !!!!! So point is they are law enf. they should have brains enough to know better right ?? well they do. However mistakes happen. BUT if you spay/neuter, No mistakes. PERIOD Quite frankly your gonna open a can of worms no one is going to clean up, Are you gonna take all those mistake puppies ? No of course your not, But who will mmm lets see oh ya, THE SHELTERS, Good god please don't publish that stuff to the "General Public" that's all we need to do is arm them with reasons not to spay/neuter. They already complain of the cost as the main reason it has not yet been done !!! Please understand my position as a Shelter Manager, I don't want these Mistake puppies, I get them every day, If you discourage one person from spay/neutering you could open the door to several little mistakes, that then need homes, and then they might make little mistakes that then need homes, Good God, where does it end. Everyone makes mistakes, even good owners, responsible owners, educated owners, make mistakes maybe the kids let the dog out and forgot to let back in, or whatever, Point is mistakes happen, But don't open the door for them to happen !!!

its kewl Echo... that is the ONLY reason for neutering or spaying IMO. we as breeders cant be the only ones in this world being "responsible" for not letting accidental breedings happen... see i am VERY cautious who my dogs/puppies go to VERY, especially after one person lied to me.. so i had to fix my questionnaire and contract since then. i also have first right of refusal too... and if they break the contract i get the dog back too and they do not get their money back either, they actually sign a contract saying they are financially responsible for that dog til it finds a new home OK'd by me and out of their custody. even breeders have had "close calls" but responsible breeders will make sure those puppies are going to go to safe homes anyway (typically) mainly i had males in mind when i wrote this as not many companion homes that own females are going to let them remain intact after maturity... which i understand. its just dogs are so plagued with terrible health issues genetic, human induced and brought on by spaying/neutering and that leaves the companion home so sad ya know :( i do not tell homes they must keep the dog intact, and they do sign the contract saying they are responsible financialy and mentally for a male or female if they are bred by accident while waiting for maturing AND they also lose their health guarantee if the dog/female is bred by accident. i actually have a lady, that doesnt know i know, spay her female at 6 months old and i saw her last week and she has grown about 3 inches in height, is having pano which is not in the bloodline anywhere and looks a little "loose" the vet that i told this too said all this can very well be due to the early spaying... can i prove it no, but if the dog has a medical issue i am going to remind her that she disregarded my request and didnt even talk to me about it... the family is very sweet.. and they go to training at my friends every week.. so they are upholding their training requirement.. she just got scared by her vet that told her that the female WILL have mammary gland cancer!!!!!!!! and thats NOT a proven thing

I have owned Alaskan Malamutes since 1970. We have been testing breeding dogs for a condition called chondrodysplasia, commonly known as dwarfism. In this breed it is a simple recessive. The least complicated way to prove your dog is or is not a carrier of the gene is to breed it directly to an affected dog meaning that all resulting puppies will be carriers even if they do not exhibit the condition. We have been sterilizing the resulting puppies prior to their being placed in pet homes for well over 30 years with no obvious ill effects to these dogs. The males are vascectomized, the bitches spayed, some done as young as 3 months of age. We are talking about hundreds of puppies that were sterilized young with no ill effects that could be directly attributed to the neutering. Personally, I am definitely in favor of neutering pet quality animals and those who are no longer used for breeding, expecially bitches. One reason is the obvious,to prevent unplanned pregnancies, but also as a health benefit, especially for bitches. A male may not benefit as much from being castrated and some owners may prefer a vascectomy instead. Males should be permitted to develope their male characteristics prior to being neutered if that is a big deal to the owner. Otherwise, they can safely be neutered any time after 7,8 months of age or vasectomized as young as 3 months. Bitches can also be sterilized using tubal ligations, but they will still come into season and will still be prone to pyometra and breast cancer. Since 1970 all my dogs and bitches have been neutered after they are no longer used for breeding. I have never had one dog with osteosarcoma or any other type cancer until I got my first GSD in 94. I had one dog with prostatitis, an intact male. He was cured with antibiotics. I would caution against accepting such statitics as quoted above without reviewing more reports from other veterinarians. Stats can be skewed in favor of or in opposition to any research. Also take into consideration the number of dogs included in this research, the breeds and the family histories. Some breeds are genetically predisposed to osteosarcoma, so their statistics should not carry as much weight as those gathered from breeds with less cases of that and other diseases. Frankly with all the dogs sitting in rescue I would hate to think of how many more will be there should breeders not require neutering of pets. It would surely add to the already overburdened statitics. We need to keep the big picture in mind here and also consider that some statistics are offered to the general public by extremist groups that both oppose and favor neutering of pet animals.

DawnMarie, I just found out about the documentation that you mentioned. Long before this was published my personal opinion on spay/neuter was: do it when the animal is fully-grown and fully developed, which for a GSD male is approximately three (3) years of age or a bit less, and for a female is usually two (2) years or just a bit more. It will absolutely eliminate the chance of testicular cancer and uterine cancer because those items are removed. But, this alone should not eliminate other issues with other organs. The hormones produced by the testicles and ovaries are necessary for proper development of both sexes, and if the organs are removed at a very early age, then the hormones they produce will not available to work with the other hormones and keep them in balance. So questionable development can be a reality. EchoMeadows, I understand your perspective very well. Most dogs of all breeds should never be allowed to reproduce. No intact female is safe unless she is, as you say, kept indoors under watchful eyes. And all it takes is fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes of unsupervised association with a male to produce a litter of puppies. That is similar to our attempts to keep teenagers from trying to reproduce! For some of them we can offer advice and "supplies", but for the others we must just deal with it, so to speak. And later shake our heads in disbelief. I know there are contraceptives available for dogs, but most owners won't even administer heartworm preventatives of immunizations, so why would any of us believe they will use contraceptives effectively? The great majority of puppies that I sold left my place with limited registration and cannot be "legally" bred. But of course that does not stop it from happening. I advise all clients of these puppies to spay/neuter them at the appropriate age, but most bow to the advice of their veterinarian and do it after six (6) to eight (8) months of age. It is of course a source of revenue for the veterinarians, but many of these veterinarians feel that they have a moral obligation to prevent unwanted litters. I cannot quarrel with them about that latter part, so I seldom raise my objection. The shelters, the roadways, and the fields are full of dogs who started life as an unplanned/unwanted litter regardless of whether or not they had an owner. Most obviously did. I support the results of the research, but also feel that perhaps we should keep it just a bit under wraps and only mention it when we sell a puppy to someone we deem to be a responsible client. Bob-O

"Some published studies showed an increase risk of prostate cancer in neutered males" 1st off, people can "publish" anything they want, it doesn't make it true. "Rotties were the only breed examined at this depth; the increased risk with spay/neuter likely affects other breeds too" why? why were rotties the ONLY breed studied? that is ridiculous- get a gene pool! btw, rotties are the #1 breed for osteosarcoma, did anyone think to mention that? arguements are made on behalf of spaying/castrating before the age where hormones first surge into the dog's system (in the case of females, before their 1st estrus cycle)- perhaps the results gathered in the studies did not allow for this variation? i.e., males w/ prostate cancer? females with mammary tumors? i'm not saying there is no benefit to neutering the animal later in life; however, the odds are much more favorable when performed early. "geriatric cognitive impairment" maybe its b/c the dogs are actually living long enough to develop cognitive disfunction? "cranial cruciate ligament rupture" how do they explain this one? & the risk of obesity? wow, that's bad parenting transferred to the dog world- "video games made my son shoot them" calories go in, calories go out- its a simple ratio of which is higher. anyone who has ever owned an intact male around intact females knows how that male loses weight for "no reason"- diet must be adjusted, that's all. & so long as we're talking about life-threatening conditions, no one has mentioned PYOMETRA... any chance of a pus-filled uterus rupturing & causing agonizing death in a spayed female? hmm...

I think that for the average pet owner, which is what we have in the states, spaying and neutering is the way to go. Most people, IMO, are not responsible enough to prevent mistakes from happening. I think that the stats you posted, increased risk of cardiac disease & cruciate ligament rupture go up when any dog, intact or not, becomes overweight. Yes, spaying and neutering can increase a dogs chances of becoming overweight, but it can be managed with diet and exercise, just like with people ;) Once a female is done breeding, I would spay her, period. The chance of an accident or pyometra is just not worth it. You would not believe the amount of pyo's we see at the vet clinic I work for! Personally, I would way take the chance my dog develop an easily treated problem like urinary incontanance than wind up with a pyo and die. With a strong breed like a GSD, once the dog reaches maturity I see no problem in having it neutered, it goes back to owner responsibility. How many of those stats you posted involved males neutered before they were mature? Also, we spay and neuter dozens of dogs every week that are 4 to 6 months old, I have worked at my clinic for 5 years and the odds of your dog developing the problems you posted, altered or not is very slim. I personally would wait until a male is mature, but for the average joe surgery younger is the way to go to prevent any unwanted accidents, we have a huge pet overpopulation problem in my area, mostly from those one time accidents with females because their owners didn't get them spayed soon enough ;(

I can only post so much text in each post, and the dogs are barking and i am trying to get this posted before responses lol i appreciate your input Blitz! I do not have documented references for the "spay/neuter" side of this if anyone does please submit, but i have heard the following: If a female has a heat season before spaying there is a slight increase in the chance of getting mammary gland cancer than if they spayed prior to the heat season. The vets say the save rate is very good for mammary gland cancer. Greater risk in Pyo if a female is not bred, and left intact. Keeps the irresponsible breeding down. There are certainly many breed related cancers and medical conditions, for sure.. i agree. One of the reason we do health checks prior to breeding (if folks are honest about their bloodlines) As stated, i do not tell pet homes they must keep dogs intact. I am very clear on irresponsible breeding while the dogs remain intact until maturity. Puppies do tend to linger here in my search for the "perfect responsible" home... so i dont just let my puppies go anywhere... (you will see this by my grey hair on my temples lol) ALL dogs are on limited registration anyway... (not that that prevents the act of breeding but i do again reiterate they will be sued if they let a breeding happen AND they lose custody of their dog. And even for breeders that tell homes they must neuter/spay at 6 months... have to prey they abide by this as we do when we tell them they cannot breed them etc... and FYI, i do work with rescue, i do transports, foster, and anything i have time for!!! in my area, the rescues i see are not breeder surrenders, are mostly pet store puppies/dogs and no one to return the dogs to :( thats why i vowed when i started to take all dogs/puppies back NO matter what age!!!! the l

No scientific input but I do think pet quailtiy should be spayed or neutered. On the down side, there are counties and cities in the US that are passing regulations that dogs HAVE to be spayed or neutered. Over and above the slight difference in licensing fees, they are adding multi-hundred dollar to in the thousands per year in additional fees to keep intact animals. As if the mutt breeders would care anyway. But this could hurt the legitimate breeder.