Degenerative Disk Disease in the GSD - Page 1

Hi all, I am writing to ask what anyone knows about GSD's having Degenerative disk disease. Is it a genetic problem? One of my dogs from a litter 6 years ago has this. He was very active early on, doing herding, agility, advanced obedience and was also a certified therapy dog. His owner says he is doing fairly well as long as they don't throw the ball too much for him. He lives in the house with two little twin girls (toddlers) and is such a sweetie. I am wondering if there is anything that I could suggest to this owner to help him? Is it genetic? if so, I would owe her a puppy! What do you guys think? thanks! Peggy Knightenhaus

Peggy I heard that it is geneitc. (anyone correct me if I am wrong) I was told that is is more in the German lines due to the roach back (again correct me if I heard wrong). I had a german lined male that had it. We neutered him before breeding due to the information I recieved. As far as your question about a puppy back, well that depends on you and how your contract reads. Most breeders will give a puppy if it is genetic. But again it depends on you! no one else can answer that, they can say what they would do but the final answer is yours.

Maybe if you have been throwing a ball your dog has twisted himself,this can happen very easily,complete rest,leash walking only.If you have a good osteopath or chiropractor who would treat your dog for you this would be what I would recommend,he would very soon locate the problem and tell you whether it was treatable or not.Hope this helps a little

Peggy, I have not seen any data relating to genetic causes of degenerative disk disease. However, in 6 years much can occur that is beyond the control or responsibility of the breeder. That being said, I urge you to do what you feel is right, as you likely know better than anyone else. With regard to German lines and specifically "roach backs", a roach back is counter to the standard, but has become more common as breeders select for backs that are firm in motion (as opposed to the sway backs of the AKC). I see no reason to suppose that this might correlate to disk problems so much as a lack of firmness in connective tissues and poor cartilage health which can be caused by injury or improper nutrition, but may also be influenced by genetic tendency for thin or weak cartilage. After 6 years you also might evaluate this dog in comparison to his littermates for more clues as to the origin of the problem. Considering his active youth it is quite possible that he simply put enough wear on the chassis that parts have begun to fail. Many a human athlete of excellent health and average or better genetics runs into the same situation . Best wishes, Jonah

Is that the vet's diagnosis?

In reply to asking about my contract, I didn't used to guarantee against genetic disease except hip and elbow dysplasia, but now I do. This owner has been wonderful with her dog and says she wouldn't trade him for the world, which is soo nice to hear! I adore my dogs though, all of them, and want to make everyone happy. I will definitely offer her a replacement puppy later on if you wants one. Yes Ranchinglady, this was the vets diagnosis. The owner studied at University of Washington small animal center (I think I remembered correctly). Anyhow, if anyone else has had any problems like this which have been diagnosed as genetic, then please let me know. The dam of this puppy, was an Uran v Wildsteigerland granddaughter and yes she did have a roached topline, but it wasn't extreme. This boy doesn't seem to have much of a roach. I always wondered if the roachy topline would have something to do with spinal issues. Maybe it does?! thanks guys I appreciate all of your comments, Peggy Knightenhaus

I have not experienced this issue with any dogs who lived to an old age, but I presume that it could be the same as with us humans. If we all live long enough, then some will get it, and others fortunately will not. But, I agree that it is something that should not happen at or just past middle age. Interesting comment on the roached toplines. I agree they are not correct per the F.C.I. standard. A very SLIGHT roach is desireable, as it will provide stability in youth and prevent sagging of the back in old age. But a roach of such small proportions would be nearly invisible, and would be smooth from the withers all the way to the beginning of the croup. The NORMAL and CORRECT dog. Can the roach cause spinal issues? One would think that it could if it is excessive in arc, as seen in many of the West German show-lines today. One could say the same thing about the sagging back in some of the Ambred showlines. Neither is natural, and I certainly do not find either back attractive. I understand the roached back was the result of trying to breed away from sagging backs with some of the West German stock about twenty (20) years ago, and it went too far because of less than careful selection. But, will either condition produce disease? I cannot answer that based upon any facts, but one would think that it could certainly exacerbate the issue with degenerating spinal disks. Bob-O

There are any number of internet sites that address this problem. The general consensus is that it is not age or injury related and that it is genetic. The FCI standard calls for a straight back. Why would a slight roach be desirable?

Blitzen, An arch is more geometrically stable, hence has in general less flex in motion than a perfectly straight back which in gaiting can become a sway back. The back also flexes somewhat upward with the rear thrust so it remains necessary to have the firmest backs possible to avoid a loose and wasteful locomotion ( like the ASD ). Some of this is also a product of dogs being somewhat longer than the ideal as well as being heavier. The effect is that their backs are like a suspension bridge carrying considerable weight over a long span. I suspect that a dog with a slight arch would be less likely to suffer back injury or excessive wear because of greater geometric stability, whereas a sway backed dog is virtually guaranteed some ill effects of its construction in relation to any athletic endeavor. Jonah

Is the dog in pain? Or is it degenerative myleopathy where there is no pain associated with it. The first signs of that are the curlling under of the rear toes. If it is the latter I have always been told there is nothing that can be done. However, now that I have seen what acupuncture and chiropractic can do (for two dogs with spondylosis - spell?). I would start those treatments right away. I think you can "google" homeopathic veternarians and they list thoes that perform acupuncture. I don't think anyone has said for sure it is genetic - but my guess is that it is but it's just one of those unknown combinations of genes that keep cropping up.