Youth in Schutzhund? - Page 1

Hi everyone! I am new to schutzhund and am looking forward to devoting myself to training with my puppy. I was wanting to get my children invovled and wondered if some of you do this with your kids. What age is appropriate for them to start? I saw that both WDA & USA are implementing youth programs but wondered if some of you experienced folks could guide me on this. We have a wonderful club where I live and everyone is great there. Very accepting of new members. Any advice? Shelley :)

I live close to Gary and Pam Hanrahan, Gary has won everything in the sport you can think of. Their son Patrick was the youngest ever to compete in the USA National Sch 3 trial, he was 11. I think the only limiting factor is desire, not so much age. In fact, with child like dedication and wonderment, they can probably do a better job than some of us more aged adults. We tend to lose that splendor with it all, when I was a boy I would have traded my left arm for a true GSD, mom would not have it so I had to wait till I was on my own. I say be thankful you have a great club and dive right in. I would say a medium drive pup would be good for your kids, something that can handle mistakes, yet still turn out ok. Good luck.

Do a google search for OG Buckeye in seville OH,.. they have several of their kids involved and doing well!!

We have a 12 year old female in our club, but I think the sport is really so time consuming that she will eventually lose interest. Kudos to those that have the dedication.

I have a different perspective on allowing children in the sport – I feel it is wrong and unfair to the animal. Our sport is one in which we compel an animal to do things that would not come naturally to it and we then further impose quite stringent requirements for “performance” of these activities. Training a dog for Schutzhund may start off motivationally but eventually *always* includes some degree of compulsion and penalty for disobedience. I do not think a child is emotionally mature enough (heck some adults aren’t even…) to understand or fairly apply “correction.” Often the children themselves are nowhere near finished their own development (requiring their own corrections) which to me is a perfect recipe for abuse of the dog. My wife is an equestrian and I see this all of the time with junior level riding competitors. They routinely abuse their animals for any or all of the following reasons: their personal mistakes (not the animal) caused them to fail, the animal not performing to an arbitrary level ABOVE what it genetically is capable of (Ii.e. unrealistic expectations) or the child has simple temper tantrums or emotional outbursts because they didn’t win. It is simple unfair to the animal that the kids are allowed to do this and considering that in horseback riding there isn’t really even a component of correction – unlike Schutzhund where it is a pillar of the training process - it makes even more sense that a child (or even young adult) is going to over correct or apply unfair corrections. That one or two exceptional children might (under the correct supervision) be able to train a dog doesn’t mean it’s a good idea nor that *most* (or even a good sized percentage) should be involved. I see youth involvement serving 2 agendas – neither with the animals best interest at heart. First, our sport, like many requiring a large time commitment and dedication for a far off goal (i.e. no immediate reward) is dying. By involving youth there is at least a chance another generation or two might be squeezed out before things are really finished – and hopefully in the ensuing time a solution to bringing things back might present its self. The second is that today’s parents seem to want to be more “friends” to their children instead of parents. Forcing the children to grow up quickly by sharing “adult” pastimes with their kids seems to be in vogue these days. From pageants, to horseback riding, to shooting sports, to paintball, to football, to hunting, to dog sports – parents seem to be involving kids in all sorts of adult activities (or at least adult levels related to these activities) at increasingly younger ages. When I was young I felt privileged when my dad took me places with him but that never meant I got to participate in what he was doing – I sat there and watched and learned, yearning for the day I would be “old enough” (read mature enough) to participate myself. These days you’ll see kids doing things from learning to pilot aircraft to drag racing cars. I don’t feel in most cases this pre-mature inclusion is to the child’s (or in this case the animals) best interest. Sure the pictures look cute of the 8 year old girl with her first deer, or the 10y/o boy in scratch pants, the 12 y/o with a $3k shooting rig look “cute” – but is it really reasonable for kids to be exposed to the full range of these activities before adulthood? When you add another living creature, compulsion and the stress of competition or being judged I see it being too much too soon. While I’ve got nothing against exposing kids to our sports I think common sense has gone out the window and most parents are selfishly looking for a “buddy.” -Calvin

oh oh -- i beg to differ cledford !! NO we do not compel , or at least shouldn't have to , if sp then take a lesson -- to do our dog sport -- sport and woning a canine ingenral is about the relationship that we develop with them !! especially the GSD , one of the highest intelligent animals on this planet !! very simple -- just teach that it is within the dogs best interest andthat is where it's needs , motivations and desries are best met with the addition of it learning that it can trust you , rely on you for direction , that it is safe with you and your direction and so forth and so forth -- so to with a child -- i do not mean a 2 year old -- but a 10 year old can most certainly develop a realionship with a dog and learn at that age how to handle one -- case in point : subscribe the the SV and read their magazine , Zeitung -- look how many events they have with choildren handling the GSD , and from what i have seen in germany .. some of them handle much better than the some of the adults in the USA -- no i don't expect a 10 year old to go out get a Sch 3 with the first step -- but this is one of the greatest pastimes children can become involved in !!! i hope yopu don't staert the training process of your GHSD at 1 year -- i start at 8 to 10 weeks -- life is a learning process

I agree with ALPHAPUP. Some children are very into dogs. If I had access to Sch at an early age, I would have loved it. My dog was my whole life and I had no job to get in my the way. After school, was all free time with my dog. Now it's too time consuming, trying to raise a kid and pay the bills all by myself. I want very much for my daughter to start in PSA with me. She has an interest but it was pushed aside, by the fact that she can't compete with her currrent dog. She has delt with that and moved past and is ready to start going to the trainings. I wouldn't suggest it's something you should throw your kids into willing or not like baseball or soccer. If they are honestly interested in it, more power to em!

T Floyd's daughter competed at the USA Schh3 National Championships at 8 years old. Of course, children that young are usually handling a pre-trained and titled dog, one that is 'trained' by the parent or trainer to respond to the child's commands. So "double handling" is necessary (in training and sometimes in trial), but that doesn't mean the kid can't have fun in the sport, if he or she wants to, I know Daio got a standing ovation at the Nationals, and she definately deserved it! Her dog was suited for her level and size (she was very very tiny) - a female show-line, very biddable, very nice dog for a little girl to have a good experience with. molly

cledford has some good points. I teach children to train their dogs in both a 4H program and as a profession. Children (and humans in general) imitate others. If they are exposed to people jerking the crap out of their dogs and using electric collars, then (depending on the age) they will imitate and not have the correct timing or ability. If they are exposed to positive methods, they will imitate those with incorrect timing as well, but with a lot less harm to the dog. You guys might want to paint a rosey picture of dog sports but no matter how positive your own methods are, your children will be exposed to other's methods at club days or shows and trials. Having said that, I believe strongly in teaching the younger generation how to treat their dogs with respect and dignity for a fellow thinking being. (cont)

Cont Schutzhund and other protection dog sports just might not be the right atmosphere for that teaching.