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by KuroOokami on 26 March 2012 - 19:03
I figured that this forum is verstile enough with breeders, general dog keepers, etc.
As it is I am not trying to start a war or anything. But I am seriously curious as to why roach backs are the apparent approved "in" in the show ring.
Does anyone have any knowledge, information, etc. as to why and when roach backed dogs became the show quality animals and straight backed dogs are the rarity [pet] and/or working line dogs?
I mean any of the original dogs of the breed are obviously straight backed or close to straight back with little angulation - Horand von Grafrath, the breed's foundation, and most of his immediate offspring so obviously do NOT have a roach back.
Horand: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1208
So as said, I'd like to know just where the concept of "roach" preferred over straight back came in - or from whom - I'd be most interested. I've tried googling it but couldn't figure out the origins.
As it is I am not trying to start a war or anything. But I am seriously curious as to why roach backs are the apparent approved "in" in the show ring.
Does anyone have any knowledge, information, etc. as to why and when roach backed dogs became the show quality animals and straight backed dogs are the rarity [pet] and/or working line dogs?
I mean any of the original dogs of the breed are obviously straight backed or close to straight back with little angulation - Horand von Grafrath, the breed's foundation, and most of his immediate offspring so obviously do NOT have a roach back.
Horand: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1208
So as said, I'd like to know just where the concept of "roach" preferred over straight back came in - or from whom - I'd be most interested. I've tried googling it but couldn't figure out the origins.
by aaykay on 26 March 2012 - 19:03
Check the pictures of the past Siegers and you can probably make out when the trend started moving away from normal backs and changing to roachy backs.
by Wise Guy on 26 March 2012 - 19:03
They didn't start breeding "for roached backs". The curved back just came along for the ride. The West German show dogs started having more of a sloping back and extended thigh bone. You can notice this trend starting with a particular dog, notably the 2003 Sieger Bax vom Luisenstrasse (and then Pakros after him.) The preference in curved backs was stronger after SV judge Peter Messler, although he could vary in his decisions.
by Abby Normal on 26 March 2012 - 20:03
If you have several days to spend reading it, I think you will find it all here:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=140904&pagen=1
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=140904&pagen=1
by myret on 26 March 2012 - 21:03
I dont understand why people like the angulated legs and roached back its is not helthy and not very pretty it looks awful
maybe if breeders start breeding dogs with a normally built dog like the origins should be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6QUmalgurU
maybe if breeders start breeding dogs with a normally built dog like the origins should be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6QUmalgurU
by dogshome9 on 26 March 2012 - 22:03
AND AGAIN.
by TingiesandTails on 27 March 2012 - 00:03
...and let me be less breed specific...why do people like little necks, big eyes, wrinkles all over the dogs body, cropped ears, docked tails, colours that have proven to be connected with genetic defects, dogs that weigh so much, they can't swim anymore, dogs with little tiny hips they need cesarian sections to give birth...I came to the conclusion that there are a lot of very strange people out there...the only thing you can do is do your research for any breed you prefer....
PS: ...not a showline person...can't answer your question...
PS: ...not a showline person...can't answer your question...
by Doghotch on 27 March 2012 - 00:03
I read a very good article on the internet some time ago, titled The Martins & More. It is a very interesting article written with knowledge of the dogs mentioned. I have been involved in GSD's all my life and actively since 1966 and have been a reqular visitor to the Sieger Show since that time.
In those days you could walk into the rings, take your photos and leave. There wasn't so many people around in those days not like today where it is a farce.
Any way I digress, in this article was a chapter - which I quote;-
To reach the top of these greats of the breed, a dog has to have outstanding temperament, good hips, balance and condition that allow the dog totrot endlessly, an overall quality, almost impossible to fault.
However almost consistent with these top winning German dogs is an ugly roach in the back. It would appear that Hermann Martin believed this as desirable and that he managed to convince the German breeders that it is proper. It was not there in the dogs of the sixties nor did I see it in the herding dogs in Germany. It is a matter of Selection.
I hope this puts an end to this load of woffle that has been written. Life is too short, enjoy your dogs. You can't change anything only by lobbying your WUSV representative for changes to be made.
Happy Trails
D G Banyard
In those days you could walk into the rings, take your photos and leave. There wasn't so many people around in those days not like today where it is a farce.
Any way I digress, in this article was a chapter - which I quote;-
To reach the top of these greats of the breed, a dog has to have outstanding temperament, good hips, balance and condition that allow the dog totrot endlessly, an overall quality, almost impossible to fault.
However almost consistent with these top winning German dogs is an ugly roach in the back. It would appear that Hermann Martin believed this as desirable and that he managed to convince the German breeders that it is proper. It was not there in the dogs of the sixties nor did I see it in the herding dogs in Germany. It is a matter of Selection.
I hope this puts an end to this load of woffle that has been written. Life is too short, enjoy your dogs. You can't change anything only by lobbying your WUSV representative for changes to be made.
Happy Trails
D G Banyard
by dogshome9 on 27 March 2012 - 01:03
Well Said TingiesandTails and Doghotch
Amen
by sonora on 27 March 2012 - 01:03
Hi KuroOokami,
This is a fantastic place for those who want to learn
and understand the German Shepherd Dog.
There are many knowledgeable people on this board,
who are ever willing to help.
All you have to do is, not be afraid to ask.
Please go to the site mentioned below read it well,
it was written by Mr. louis Donald who is very knowledgable
in the breed and has helped guide Australian G S D's to where they are now.
I'm very sure you will be enlighten by this site,as it is very informative.
Hope it helps you.
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/louis_donald_article.pdf
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