___Bloodlines - Hardness and Aggression___ - Page 1

Looking for opinions from people more knowledgable and experienced with pedigrees than myself. 

What dogs, both in showlines and working lines, are known for good nerves and defensive drives in their progency?

Sick of prey maniacs who wouldn't know a real situation if it stabbed them in the leg. Sick of soft temperments and the modernized GSD best suited to play an edgy game of tug with a bite sleeve or prance merrily around a show arena. What happened to natural protective instincts and the breeders who seek to produce the GSD the world fell in love with? 

Freaking ridiculous. 

Man it has been pick on dogs with prey around here this week...You know what I am taking my dog back cause she has a very high prey drive. Um, why can't a dog have crazy prey and high defense and fight drives?? How is it that a German Shepherd can't be balanced? You know what I don't want?
A reactive defense dog.

An amazing trainer once told me if you want the perfect example of total defense and defensive aggression you only have to look towards the rattlesnake. It is an animal with pure defense and aggression that if approached will attack without hesitation. However it will never chase you or go out of it's way to get you. Defense is generally a reactive drive where as prey is proactive, both drives are essential to a great dog. My bitch is probably what many are calling "Prey crazy" however you try and lay a hand on me and see what happens.

Sorry...had to defend so called "Prey Dogs" personally a good shepherd is just a "Good dog" with lots of both drives. That said I have seen some nasty Ellute progeny as far as more recent dogs.

i keep hearing that czech/slovak showlines are very good

A large part of the problem is that the politically correct temperament of ALL dogs these days is that they all act like golden retrievers and cocker spaniels in different suits. Most of the advice you see on forums is that if the pups and parents of same don't run up to you practically peeing on themselves with excitement to greet you then RED FLAG, run like hell !!! For the breeder producing GSDs with the " right stuff" , there are not many people looking for a real GSD and their efforts are not appreciated by the general public. That's why the breed is being so watered down, to meet the demands of political correctness. TV programs also contribute to the new belief that all breeds of dogs should act with the same benign, dull empty headedness : "calm and submissive"! So, there are still "real" GSDs out here, but unfortunately, they are the exception rather than the norm.

The biggest part of the problem is people!
A person can get the best puppy from a litter and still turne it into either a freack with no brain or kill any drive the poor puppy shows.

Pedigree is only small part, it is a potential not given result. 
... the rest is up to the handler and trainer to do right by them.

fenrir , you are right , nothing wrong with preydrive IF balanced with defence , dominance/agression , sorry to say that many of todays sportlines are not so much balanced , but are tipping over to the prey side , and if it bites , many fail to see the reason why , example , the puppy hanging from a rag is solf first , but in fact tells you nothing about the pup other than crazy preydrive

with the introduction of full points for full calm grip , and losing poins for troubling the helper the situation is created that easy trainable sportdogs are high prey , low defence , very low sharpnes , reactiveness  are bred for and selected on , and where you breed for extremes , you loose variety , and you will create three lines in german shepherds eventually , showlines , sportlines , and versatile dogs that can be used for various jobs , army , police ,personal protection and so on

thats why I like to breed courageous reactive defensive dogs to couragious more sport/prey oriented dogs , this brings me dogs that can fit in everywhere ,and are worked in many various jobs ,  but sometimes are not the easyest for first time dogowners

Seriously not trying to be a smart ass here. If you are use to these"prey monsters" and you are sick of it and want hardness and aggression.......what makes you think you can handle that type of dog? If you don't know the bloodlines nor know the breeders that produce that type of dog, can you really handle it? Maybe a dog with a medium prey drive and higher nervebase is a better solution. Hardness and aggression is a whole 'nother thing.

I do agree about the lots of the German Shepherd turning more and more into a less efficiant Malinois and that just upsets me, if that is what you want just get a Mali. Von Stephanitz liked a dog with high drive but a strong sharpness when called for. A balanced Shepherd is a thing of utter beauty, the kind of dog that can walk right up to a stranger and give them love and licks but if that stranger so much as makes a move against you will turn it on and damn near kill a man. It is not only possible it is honestly what our dog should be, what makes the Shepherd so amazing is it is smart enough to have control of all of its drives and know when to switch it. If we breed the ability for our dogs to control those drives out of the dog and make them preytarded or nasty killers of men then we have failed the breed. The Shepherd should be a thinker first and foremost.

I agree versatility is the most important thing in a dog. Or a breeding that will bring versatility...

Man it has been pick on dogs with prey around here this week...You know what I am taking my dog back cause she has a very high prey drive. Um, why can't a dog have crazy prey and high defense and fight drives?? How is it that a German Shepherd can't be balanced?

I have a crazy prey GSD, with high fight and defense drives.  He is an awesome dog, however he will not walk up to strangers and give kisses.  He will bring a toy and you can throw it for him, just don't think you are friends and don't try to pet him if he says "NO."  He also has crushing, full hard grips on a sleeve, suit or bare arm, leg or what ever he gets.  He is a super "sport" dog and gets full points for his street bites.