The importance of titling before breeding - Page 1

Opinions?

Very important.
Not basing this only on Schutzhund,
that just happens to be our sport of choice.

We have like most, dabbled in Ring (too few clubs,
way more infighting/politics than you can imagine).
AKC obedience, tracking, anything.

Training and then titling will
show you weak areas and strengths in your dog.
If you never leave the safety of your backyard,
you will never know your real dog.
Get the dog out on the road, travelling to venues,
hotel stays, road 'noise', different fields/buildings etc.

Some people don't travel well, some dogs don't either.
So much about titling a dog in some arena will
open your eyes, at least if you want them to be

One thing about titling that not many people think about, is if you breed to an older dog that has competed in schutzhund for several years, and stayed sound and healthy, you know that his body can handle all the training and impacts etc.  Hopefully this means that you are breeding to physical strength.  Also means that he has the mental capacity to handle the stress, travel etc that a long competitive career entails.

Training and then titling will
show you weak areas and strengths in your dog.
If you never leave the safety of your backyard,
you will never know your real dog.
Get the dog out on the road, travelling to venues,
hotel stays, road 'noise', different fields/buildings etc.
 

Yes. This. Exactly. DO SOMETHING with your GSD to learn about him/her, to see your dog in a variety of situations, to prove to yourself and others that your dog can be a useful dog.

It is *very* hard to do schutzhund or ringsport or PSA in the US, often require hours of driving just to get to training--but doing other activities and sports in the US is not that hard. Even doing dock diving will teach you about your dog--and will show the rest of the dog world that there are GSDs that are active, healthy, vigorous and sound temperamented.

And if you are honest with yourself, you can use what you have learned in making a decision to breed (or not to breed) and how/to what dogs to breed. You will know more about your dog than if you just stood at home and admired how good he looks playing ball with you.

Christine

I'm all for it. A lot of people have posted adds for their pups lately and the sole selling point is just it's so-and-so's grandpup, or it's V or VA in it's line, and you look and the first one or two generations aren't titled. it's kind of like they're relying on the name of the dog in the previous generations. But how do I know that your dog inherited the qualities that I liked in it's grandsire or dam?

Absolutely a MUST.  The only rare exception I would make is a working dog (military, police, etc) that comes from a long line of working titled dogs if I know the character and courage of the working dog.  I also need to see a healthy dose of BSPs and WUSV competitors in the lines because I don't know if a club level SchH3 means a whole lot when it comes to courage. 

There is an issue in the breed that is similar to SIDS in babies, but I believe most dogs drop dead from it by 12 months of age or while under anesthesia. I don't recall the name of the disorder nor that it is found by a routine examine. 
 
Pannus can show up rather young, but it should still be obvious to a breeder that something is not right, dog goes to vet, vet confirms pannus. Dog is pulled from breeding.    Agree cerf in itself doesn't help here.
 
vWd is something not many screen for. Should be done early because the number goes up with age so a low normal at 3 or after heat cycles may not be accurate. Vaccines may play a factor. Dr. Jean Dodds is the expert.
There are issues, not as many as in other breeds but they are there.
 
Why don't you ask a vet, especially the one who owns the VA2 NASS dog. She lists what he has been checked for:
 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/classifieds/98459.html
 
and if you go under comments, she gives her opinion on why he's not screened for DM. 
 
Can't get any better, a vet who owns and breeds the breed.

Oops, put this under the wrong link. will copy and paste it there.
You guys are too fast with the threads, went out and back in and hit the wrong one.

 OK, to play devils advocate:

Some of the progeny I have bought from all Schutzhund titled dogs  have not been breed worthy IMO, nervy and lack of courage being the biggest issues I've seen.  I don't even have to take them off of the property to see it.

I don't want to imply that titling is easy ( I know it takes a lot of work) or not necessary, (no titles are not the answer either) but it obviously can cover flaws, flaws that I can see in my own back yard.

Maybe there is no way to tell the quality of a dog by its' titles unless you see it first hand, and  then again  we all have different opinions on what is considered a good dog.

I'm curious though, to those of you who have achieved titles, were your dogs worthy of them in your honest opinion?  Were they worthy of breeding?

 

Worthy of the titles we earned, honestly? Yes.
We don't hand pick judges, but there are some we will
not trial under because they tend to be "Santa Claus" types.
We are actually of the mindset we want to earn our points.
Have been surprised at times when we got more points than
we thought we should have, but any 'gifts'?   No.

While most will agree a title is not the
end all for breed selection, it is a starting
point. I bet if you knew now what you didn't
know then, you likely would not have purchased
the dogs that didn't turn out.

And then we come to the honesty factor in humans,
if the seller is not honest, not much more you can
do. But, if you do your research, you can find out
alot about the actual dog/dogs in a breeding  and
the seller before you buy.