No Palme? - Page 1

I was curious to see if there are any German showline dogs that have no Palme v Wildsteiger land in their pedigrees (no matter how many generations back) or even if there any dogs that have Palme in their pedigree only once. 
(Note, this is not to say Palme is bad, I know she has been very beneficial to the showline)

Please don't list any working lines or AM showlines that are Palme-free. 

Even the "alternative" German Showline dog Timo Berrekasten is linebred on Palme 5,5-5. 

The pedigree database reverse-linebreeding says that there are 2459 dogs in the database that are linebred on Palme.  The linebreeding records are kept only up to the 5th generation so it's not listing the untold number of dogs who have Palme multiple times in their 6th, 7th, 8th, etc. generations.  Since Palme was born in 1979 over 3 decades have passed and numerous generations of dogs (as many as 16 generations.) 

I will be shocked if there are any German Showline dogs alive today who do not have Palme anywhere in their pedigree. 

this is a hard one as i dont know any dog that does not carry Uran v wildsteigerland which is a Palme son, will be intrested to see if there are any dogs without Palme.

Manto v Overledingerland has no Palme

Mackenzie

So, anybody see a reason to be worried about the genetics of this? 

http://www.canine-genetics.com/Popular_sires.htm 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=528790 

Sunsilver, I saw that thread and link, it's largely why I was curious about Palme and posted this thread.

Mackenzie, thanks for posting him, I'll try to find if any of his progeny and grand-progeny are also Palme free.  It's too bad he was born so long ago and he had poor hips. 

Ah! I thought you might have seen it!

Mine has Palme a few times starting 8 generations back.

Euroshpherd

Manto's hips were noch zugelassen.   Most of his influence at that time went forward mainly through  Ork vom Wertheraner Land who also had no Palme.


Mackenzie

thanks for the other post, well i am so glad my female is 8 and in top shape. i hope she lives to an good old age.

My female is an Ursus grand-daughter.

If you go further back in Urus's pedigree, you'll find Palme SIX times in the 5th generation, and twice in the 6th, for a total of 8 times.

Here's my dog's sire, Erko: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=476201 

He has Palme in his dam's line a total of 7 times. So, Star has Palme in her pedigree a total of 15 times through him: 8 from Ursus and 7 from her grand-dam. That's one HELL of a lot of backmassing/inbreeding/whatever you want to call it!

Fortunately, Star's dam was American lines, so she herself is a total outcross!  If you check the American side of her pedigree, not even Lance of Fran-jo shows up as often as Palme and some of the other very popular German showline dogs!