Do these showlines carry the black recessive gene? - Page 1

I saw this ad, http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/classifieds/147956.html, and was wondering how you would get a mostly showline black dog. Here is the pedigree, http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=683290, Her paternal grandsire Faraon came from a showline male who I doubt carries black since he lacks the penciling on his toes or tar heels. The the bitch's dam is showline and again I doubt she carries the black recessive gene. Is it possiblt that my assumption of most showlines lacing the black gene correct? 

Your assumption is correct. This Russian breeder managed to produce GSDs with DOMINANT solid black genes, you can see a solid black mated with a black/tan having 2 b/t genes but yet resulting offspring are solid blacks, how he did it beats be !!!

Ibrahim

I wouldn't trust any breeder in Russia! Don't go sending him your $$ - you'll probably never get a dog or will get some other culled animal.

Black is recessive - hoping that the reason you are attracted to this dog isn't it's color.?  He mentions dog is rated excellent.....how? sho rating? he doesn't say so.  H/E Xrays wouldn't be trustworthy either.

I have a black working line male but wouldn't go out of my way seeking a black - due mostly because of how overhead sun impacts them.

Please pardon my outspken negative remarks but I do not trust any russian breeder - especially one seeking to sell to an american...we are easy prey you know.
I wished to add that I doubt these dogs are actually related to each other as depicted.  I suspect they have interbred a working line visual black dog into the lines.  Bet if you did a DNA test, you would find this.  He is hoping someone will buy this pup cause of it being 'exotic' looking.
My black male looks almost like his pup.......you could easily inter breed him and have the dogs look like showlines.


Or.....dye....I used to see this done with horses a lot!


Alex

i do believe that this pedigree is not true , as there is no way this dogs mother has any black in her lines, the only thing i figure is this is not the pedigree of this dog.  and the dads side seems a little strange how the black just poped out without having any black father back in the pedigree.
i do believe this is a false pedigree and probly not the parents of this dog.

I got a pm about this website, http://www.animalgenetics.us/Canine/KLocus.htm concerning the dominant black gene Ibrahim mentioned. I have to go out and can't read it but there it is, maybe it's possible the pedigree is true. I wish I hadn't posted the ad since it wasn't needed to answer the question. It is impossible to know if it's real w/o dna proof of pedigree. ... I guess this is just the panda shepherd deal again then. 

I still don't believe it's true......but with that said, why do show line breeders just go nuts over a possible black show line, or a show line with a mostly black face? Why not just buy a working line with a structure that fits their taste? I don't get it......

The idea that a dominant black gene was introduced through the K allele is consistent with the pattern of inheritance.  Could it have been a spontaneous mutation?  Or maybe introduced from another breed?  But at what point is a dog not purebred?  A dog 7 generations back provides less than 1% of the genetic material.

I have seen some IMO gorgeous dogs that are black from ads from Russia. I too thought how in the world can this be true? One side had nothing but German black and red show dogs for generations. 

In most breeds, the color black is dominant and it is on a different locus than the agouti locus that carries the GSD patterns of sable and saddle and the recessive black.

The dominant black gene was (mostly?) bred out of the GSD, but it is possible that it either snuck through and stuck around or that it was introduced from another breed (for example, the Belgian Groenendal or the Black Russian Terrier). As someone points out, a breeding to a dominant black non-GSD could have happened 7 or 8 generations back--and now the dogs are beautiful examples of GSDs.

The only thing is--do we want to have this dominant black gene back in the breed? It covers up any sable/saddle and masking genes as well as the richness of the red/brown/tan pigment.

Christine