being the "alpha"? - Page 1

I have heard two different things said about the "alpha" leader. I've heard that dogs will protect the "alpha",but I have also heard that because the "alpha" leads the pack it would be his/her job to protect the pack/ submissive members. What are your opinions on this?

Alpha or Beta, your dog is your dog.  Not very sure about the "alpha leader" "pack" etc. c&*p, but the dog knows you are his owner who provides him love, companionship, food and shelter.  The dog instinctively guards his territory, which includes your house, your property and also the members who reside within, including the members of your household and  yourself.  

In my opinion, that about sums it up on why the dog defends you and your possessions. 

At the same time, out in the real world, you are responsible for your pet.  You have to make sure that he/she does not get into trouble and stay out of trouble.  You need to administer to his/her needs and medical care.  If the dog causes an "accident", you clean it up - an "alpha" wolf pack leader may not clean up after his "submissive member" but you do for your dog, since he/she is in your care and he/she is your dog. 

I personally doubt a dog looks at you as an "alpha member of the pack", like a member of a wolf pack looks on the pack-leader as the "alpha" - since a dog is smart enough to know who is a dog and who is a human and can clearly distinguish between the two.  JMHO, of course.

if a puma or bear attacks the alpha wolf (a more powerful predator) the rest of the pack will fight the puma, on nature shows they never just let the alpha deal with it on his own even the pups join in, otherwise wolves wouldnt be top predators if all other animals had to do was take out the alpha, its a group thing but yeah aaykay is probably right i doubht the dog sees things that way after 13 thousand years of domestication.

I know I had an alpha dog that definitely got more worked up when the children or I were outside if someone came in.  With my husband there, he didn't feel like he had to handle it, but let him handle it.

Then I've had dogs that just seemed territorial and not so protective of the person, and  dogs  that were  just plain sharp and more worried about protecting themselves, rather than the property or their persons.

yeah i have seen that also dogs that would fight for themselves or for their property but would not do it for their owner lol I always wonder why its not like their owner abuse them i figure the dog just thought hell my owner can handle himself i am too lazy to bother but who knows but if someone went on that dogs property that dog will bite for real when they did home invasions in protection. Do anything to the dogs owner in public it wont care though.I never saw it in gsds though. Other bully type breeds.

Interesting destiny. 

Mine have all been GSD's.  They have all been so different though.

In observing the majority of dogs I have owned, of all different breeds, they view me as their alpha and tend to elect to let me handle situations that I am comfortable in. However, in the case where I was creeped out when approached by a stranger in base housing (who was later arrested by the MP for unsavory activity), my GSD had no problem picking up that I was not happy with this man's behavior, and stepped between us in full guard mode. My interpretation, in terms of natural behaviors, the pack will follow the alpha, and if the alpha looks like he, or she, is contemplating a fight, they will naturally join in on his side. The mob mentality of a pack.

My black lab was very protective of me while I slept. If we were in a different place, she would literally stand over me, two feet on one side, two on the other, and stay there all night. In the morning, when I woke, she would curl up in a tired heap and rest. She was field lines, not show lines, but I don't know if that makes a difference. --- I have a JRT who kept watch while I was pregnant. He would stand on the bed next to me, and growl if things moved outside. Never before, or since the pregnancies. Not like a 15lbs rat dog has much stopping power, but the little guy will hit a trial sleeve, and dangle off it with great tenacity, lol!

She was field lines, not show lines, but I don't know if that makes a difference

My field lab pup (5 months old, lean, hyper-active, dominant and 60+lbs now) will get between me and any other dog, if a dog (any dog, regardless of size) were to make a move towards me.  He is of course still just a pup, with all four of his baby canines, still firmly in place.  Of course since he is a field lab, his energy levels are ultra-high and probably a notch above even my Czech GSD female 6-month old pup. 

My 5-month old Choc Field lab pup:

http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/phwebhost/Bella%20and%20Joey/109336ba.jpg
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/phwebhost/Bella%20and%20Joey/c1a15f65.jpg
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/phwebhost/Bella%20and%20Joey/c28bcd85.jpg
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/phwebhost/Bella%20and%20Joey/de479c3a.jpg

Of course, I am a firm believer that all of the "human alpha" talk and the dog treating a human being as the "alpha pack member" is just plain rubbish.  We are not giving these intelligent beings enough credit, if we believe that they can't distinguish between a human and a member of their species, and treats the human master as some kind of a pack alpha.   

The only exception I would make to the above is if the dog were plucked from his mother when its eyes were barely open, and were raised from then on, exclusively in the company of humans, with no interaction with members of the dog species.  Under this situation, the dog would look upon such human as its parent. 

I doubt most folk would say their dog has species-confusion issues. Dogs know we're not them. At the same time, they are the only species to have evolved with humans in a symbiotic relationship. Dogs are rather unique in that they have evolved to respond to humans and their own kind in a remarkably complex bi-species social structure.

My dogs defer to me, but at the same time when I "release the hounds," and let them run in a free pack while I sit back, I see they aren't leaderless. Within the pack they have their own social structure that operates quite smoothly without my intervention. The occasional bark-skirmish crops up, but even without me, they have fit themselves into their own roles.

Back to the OP's statement, I have seen how they react to unusual things without me coaching them. They follow the alpha/parent-model's lead. If the alpha bolts, tail down, the rest of the pack take flight. If the alpha charges, then they all mob in.

The alpha/parent, whatever theory you chose to espouse, he will shepherd the pack away from danger or lead them in a united charge, but making a lone stand against a threat is not something I see, with one exception: I have seen both males and females make individual stands to protect young dogs, puppies.

Dogs will stand by an incapacitated pack mate, like an MWD guarding his fallen handler, or standing watch while his human sleeps, and I know they stand by fallen members of their own kind. I think that is a desire to maintain pack cohesion; for the strength of the wild canid is in his pack, and on a survival level it makes more sense to stand with a fallen pack mate hoping they get than it does to go with reduced numbers. --- I am also not afraid to say dogs form complex emotional bonds. Survival theory notwithstanding, dogs want to be with their loved ones, species regardless.