4 month old GSD puppy...16 pounds... - Page 1

I recently purchased a puppy from a breeder who imported the puppy from Hungary. I do not want to name the breeder yet as I want to make sure I am not overreacting. I did my homework on the breeder and did not find any bad info on her prior to purchasing the puppy. I have had GSDs for the past 20 years (family pets) and have been constantly around working GSDs so I am not ignorant to the breed...but by no means an expert. I purchased the puppy last Tuesday and the breeder agreed to ship him to me on Thursday. On the night before the puppy was to be shipped (Wed) the breeder informed me that all was good to go and that she received the health certificate from the vet. She then stated that the puppy was 5 lbs underweight but not to worry about it because her vet was not worried about it. I became immediately nervous because to me...5 lbs on a 16 week puppy seemed like a lot! I then asked about worms and breeder would neither confirm or deny but stated that worms are common in puppies (I agree) and so is giardia...(don't know what to think on that). Breeder agreed to send wormer with puppy. Breeder then stated that they like to keep puppies on "light" side for "orthopedic health". Anyway, received the puppy on Thursday and was happy with his appearance at first but noted that he was kind of shell shocked and tired...figured it was 6 hr flight...changes etc. Once at home we really noticed how boney he was....ribs and back bone is all we felt on little guy. He is a long coat as were my other two and I know they can look bigger than they really are with all that hair...but when you pet the puppy he really was nothing but bones. I took him to vet the next day to get him wormed. While at vet...he was weighed and vet said he was 16 pounds (again 4 months old). I was astounded and worried. I then emailed the breeder with info and stated that a puppy that age should be 30-40 pounds. Her answer to me was "Says Who"? She said that GSD growth charts were for people who like rolly poley puppies! I feed my GSDs a raw diet and have never had a rolly poley dog. Here are my questions: 1) Am I being paranoid and overreacting to a 16 pound 4 month old shep? 2) Both his ears are floppy...could this be from malnourishment? I do know about teething etc...and breeder states both ears have been up at one time or another (don't know what to believe anymore). 3) He has a runny left eye (not to bad...not red and no pus)..will it clear up if I get him to right weight? 4) If 16 pounds is extremely underweight and malnourished...should I be worried about damage that might have been done already...growth, ears, hips....etc. He is cowhocked now and breeder said it is normal and should go away. 5) He is very lethargic and cannot do anything for more than 5 minutes without becoming exhausted...although he seems to be getting a little more energy as I put weight on him. Is this something I should be worried about or will it change when he gets healthy? I am feeding him 3x a day with raw lamb. eukaneuba puppy kibble, a high calorie nutrient paste, pasta, and nutrajoint supplement (gelatin and calcium to promote cartilage growth). He is eating well, and has good stools...and seems to be gaining weight...will know more in a few days when I go to vet for second worming shot. Finally, I emailed the breeder (after several emails containing the above concerns) and advised her that if this puppy is damaged and I cannot get him healthy I would be seeking a refund or replacement puppy and I did NOT want puppy from the same breeder in Hungary. The breeder then said she did not like being threatened and became quite nasty. I am not naming the breeder because she intimated that she might be having health problems and is scaling back her operation. Any advice and information would be greatly appreciated! Please feel free to email me at nypiper127@aol.com. Thank you in advance.

That does sound really small for a 4 month pup. I think my pup was on small side and still weighed 23 pounds at that age and is 36 pounds at 5 months.  But, if yours is skin and bones and he has a dull coat than someting may be up.  He may just be the runt as well. 

It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Keep trying to put some weight on him and give the wormer time to kick in. Did you also drop off a stool sample or did the vet just worm him?  That way, they can confirm and also check for other things.

You can also give him a bully stick to chew daily for his teething. I did that with my pup and her ears went up at that age.

I would give it a month and I would think you would notice significant improvement in his condition, coat, attitude, and energy. If he hasn't improved in a month than I would contact the breeder.  That does not sound professional for her to get so nasty when you told her you were not happy with puppy. I am sure a red flag went yp for you. 

But, there are more experienced breeders/owners on this board so, hopefully, someone can offer you some more suggestions.....

Good luck with your boy!

A male puppy at 4 months age should weigh at least double the weight you mentioned. A responsible breeder who cares about her dogs and clients should not ship an unhealthy puppy as it may not withstand the stress of travel.
From your description of the puppy he's way under weight and not in best health, as a breeder she must have known that but just tried to get away with it.
For the welfare of the puppy do all necessary to increase his weight so his strength returns back, in regards to ears it is not abnormal for a puppy to have droop/floppy ones at this age, so hopefully they will stand up soon.
If after 3-4 weeks the puppy is still not completely fine you have all the ethical right for a replacement or refund. Is there a contract? Make sure what the contract terms are.
In case puppy does not become well and the breeder still tries to run away from her commitments, come back here, expose her name and be certain she will learn a hard lesson for her irresponsible attitude. Hopefully she reads this and acts smartly.

All the best
Ibrahim

Thank you both for your replies!  I am giving him marrow bones for his teething and he loves them!  I too was shocked that the breeder shiped him in that condition but I didn't want to say so on here as I was trying not to jade any responses!  She had to know he was in terrible condition as she told me she has sold over 300 puppies...and I believe it.  I really have not found anything negative on her and wanted to make sure I was not overreacting!  I just hope none of her other puppies are that thin...it was almost ASPCA thin in my opinion!  I just want the little fella to get healthy...an I will feel darn good about it because I believe I save his life!  I do see daily improvement...but am just worried that there might be a ticking time bomb in him due to malnourishment.  I did not bring a stool sample but plan on doing so for next worming shot.  He is a great little pup and when he has energy he has a great temperment.  Thanks for the info and support! Thought it was me for a sec!

As you already know your post came in during the week end, I am sure you shall get more replies from our more experienced members here, good breeders, trainers and dog owners with lot of experience and know-how in regards to puppy health, welfare etc plus disputes between buyer and breeder, they will advise you more professionally and cover more angles, again good luck to you.

Ibrahim

Puppies are pretty durable!! I wouldn't worry...the only thing I can think of is rickets and you would notice by now.... So, if it makes you feel better it is better that he is undernourished than overnourished!! I hope he continues to improve!!

UPDATE:
DAUGHTER BACK FROM VET AND PUPPY IS NOW 27 LBS AND DOING WELL! HE HAS GAINED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ENERGY AND IS STARTING TO ACT LIKE A "NORMAL" PUPPY.  STILL A LITTLE SHY (NOT SKITTISH) WITH STRANGERS.
WHILE AT VET ...DAUGHTER WAS BOMBARDED WITH MEDICINES....FRONTLINE (WHICH i USE) HEARTGUARD AND A PRODUCT I NEVER HEAD OF...."REVOLUTION".  APPARENTLY REVOLUTION IS PRESCRIPTION ONLY AND FOR PARASITES...INCLUDING HEARTWORM AND EARMITES.  SO MY QUESTION IS.....IF REVOLUTION PREVENTS HEARTWORM...WHY GIVE HEARTGUARD?
ALSO WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE HAS HAD A MODERATELY SHY GSD PUPPY?
THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL WHO RESPONDEDD TO MY FIRST POST...YOUR ENCOURAGEMENT AND ADVICE WAS GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Glad to hear he is doing better, Both my pups were small due to giardia and cocidia and just being a small puppy, Klaus is now 9 months old at 60 LB and Renda is at 50+ pounds at 10 months old.  I worried too but I found out that sometimes they just grow differently renda was 32 LB when I got her at 8 months but with in 2 months she gained 18 LB Klaus was small too 14 LB at 4 months old. He will grow :) post some pictures too

Here are my babies at 8 months and 7 months

I am pretty sure that giving you heartguard and revolution was a mistake.

I would also recommend Panacur C for the Giardia.  There is a special protocol for treating the Giardia.  It is also a good wormer.

Good luck with your pup.

Michele

Don't believe puppy had Giardia.  We had him wormed when we got him (2 1/2 weeks ago).  Vet gave shots for all worms just in case.  Stool sample tody was negative and he has gained 10 lbs.  Hopefully he will continue gaining weight.  Will do another stool sample in two - three weeks to be sure he is worm free.  I didn't know about Revolution until daughter told me her vet used it on puppy.  Vet also wanted her to think about Lyme disease shot...again...Frontline claims to kill ticks before they have time to transmit disease...so I'm thinking that is a PASS!  Also ANOTHER Vet against RAW feeding! I KNOW my raw diet is costing my vet $$$$   no allergies....dental problems....  HA!