Workingline&petline genetics Veterinary student has question - Page 1

Good Morning to all my friends,
A veterinary student is giving a lecture on GSD and their behavior in workabiltiy with the theme of genetics. Here is her question:         I was wondering if you have ever heard of there being a pedigree linked behavior difference between german shepherds?  Is there a certain line of shepherd that makes a better family dog vs a line that makes a better working dog?  I have been told that german shepherds with czechoslovakian lines are working dogs. If you know of any articles on that subject that would be awesome.

Thank you each and everyone who helps this young lady with her question. Stephanie is going to make a great Veterinarian and she loves the GSD.

Always,
Cee

I believe she is asking that are there GSD genetic lines that are really serious at there work and will not let go of a bite until the bad guy is in hand cuffs. Are their genetic lines that  will make a better pet. My feeling is you have say 10 puppies in a litter, and you will have a wide range of workability, some can control their drives better than other pups in that litter.

Here are some links to scholarly articles:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=german+shepherd+temperment+working+lines+show+lines&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=8682l12459l1l12759l16l13l0l0l0l2l199l1540l4.9l13l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1280&bih=778&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=ws

However, there are many more non-scientific links regarding the difference.  I do want to correct you, though, that even taking into account individual differences, a LOT of us with "working line" dogs, including me with Czech DDR lines in our dogs, have them as PETS AND for work.  I myself have four working line dogs and they all stay inside the house at the same time. 

In any event, working lines are bred specifically not just for structural soundness, but for stronger drives and courage.  The link I provided gives some of the proven tests that have shown to select for better working dogs.  Also since most purchasers of working line dogs want pups out of proven dogs, they already know the puppy comes from dogs that have shown courage and tenacity that has been tested repeatedly.  In Germany untested dogs are not titled in obedience, tracking and courage cannot be bred.

Most "pet" only homes do not appreciate a dog that needs/wants to be active, might tend to take over the household and bite humans that challenge them if they do not know what they are doing.  Other people like me look all over the world for dogs just like that...the working dog that is stable but driven, that not only will not back down but relishes the fight.  We want heart and courage above color, above looks.  That is usually just the opposite of what the American lines seek.

Here is a good explanation of how Czech lines evolved:

http://vintageranchk9.com/pohranicnistraze.aspx

Thank you Hunger :)  Stephanie is a great student, she loves my working dog who wears many hats
Always,
Cee

Hi Cee,
   A well bred "working line" dog that shows he or she is a good representative of what Captain Von Stephanitz envisioned is not only a good working dog, but also a very good house dog. Some breeders only look to the "drives" of the dog as their main focus.Drives includes prey drive,pack drive,and defense. The nerve strength needs to be considered also, as this is a very important aspect of the dog to consider. This contributes to the courage,strength, and hardness of the dog. This makes the dog stable in all situations. Captain Von Stephanitz maintained that a dog should be a house dog and not a kennel dog. If you Google Captain Max Von Sephanitz, you will find many useful links to answer a lot of your questions about what was envisioned for the breed and where it is today. I'll post some other links of interest later..........I hope this helps the vet in the making!

Thank you richram,
Always,
Cee

My dogs are pure working lines, WG [oh wait, they are about 1/8 Czech], and they all come in the house. Maybe not all at once LOL. But what's the point of having dogs if you can't hang out with them? These are very serious dogs, by the way, training in PPD. We get DQed all the time for failing to out. LOL LOL

It pretty much comes down to the bite. The landshark puppy is a bit much for the unprepared pet family, such as a pregnant mom with a toddler in tow. This becomes a huge disappointment for the little kids when they just want to cuddle that puppy. Now, if they are experienced with a GSD pup, they will know/ learn how to deal with this, but for a first timer, it often doesn't end well or cheaply. My dog would probably fail a schutzhund test with weak grips, etc., but at this stage of all our development and experience level, a showline GSD has brought much joy to our home. Especially now, that we are past the puppy stage, I can't tell you how many "scared of big dog" friends absolutely love our dog. 

Yet, he has a big bark and uses it appropriately. He's never bit anyone, nor has there been a reason to warrant a bite, (except the time he got stepped on!) so, I do believe in his intelligence and his courage, or heart, that he would rise to the occasion with a real threat, even if his job serves only as a warning. I know many here think that I am enjoying that scenario as a fairytale, but it is what I believe!

So, what the ideal should be is that there be no division in lines if we follow the vision of the Captain, the originator of the breed. There should be varying degrees of temperment within a litter for a serious sport enthusiast, and the little less bitey dog, would be the family pet dog for me.

Thank you VomMarichal  and BeeTree :)   Too funny VomMarichal, thanks Beetree for bringing up Captain vision, I forgot that. I am passing all of this to Stephanie and she will be presenting next week and will sit in on it and let everyone know how it went :)

Always,
Cee

http://schutzhundvillage.com/terms2.html 
Cee,
   Here are some interesting articles on drives and other terms used to describe German Shepherds. I'll send some other links as well. Richard