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by Open Prairie Kennel Guy on 11 April 2011 - 04:04
I have a bad situation. My female just gave birth to her first litter. Shortly after delivering the first five, she bit and killed three. A vet gave her an oxytosin shot and she had two more. The surviving four pups have been placed with a mother dog who has a large litter of her own two week old pups. While I feel very lucky to find a mother that acepted the new pups, I would like suggestions about how to get this situation to turn out best. Has any one successfully delt with a need for a surrogate mother?
by lovejags on 11 April 2011 - 05:04
I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS HAPPEN, BUT I DON'T THINK I WOULD BREED A BITCH LIKE THIS AGAIN. HOPE ALL GOES WELL WITH THE SURROGATE MOTHER!
by trixx on 11 April 2011 - 15:04
yes, you dont want to breed this bitch again.
by Weezy on 11 April 2011 - 17:04
I will totally agree with trixx and lovejags.
I have had this happen. The veterinary said most likely a hormone issue and will likely happen again and again. the genetic potential is also there to be passed to her pups to do the same thing.
I have seen it in a welsh corgi, a doberman pinscher and one of my german shepherds. she was a dominant female and would try beating the crap out of an adult male too.
In the case of the Doberman--she would whelp, clean and nurse pups at the onset, kill them the next day. these people bred her 4 times, thought that she was doing well the last time as she actually cared for the pups to 3 weeks old at which time, she again turned on them and killed half of them before he got to her . litter of 7-8 that time.
the Welsh corgi, couldn't have her first litter, so was taken c-section and you can kind of expect something like that if the female wasn't actually able to give birth and then wake up with several things sucking, she didn't like it and proceeded to bite them. they were taken away and hand raised. first few days, she was laid down, muzzled and pups let nurse, she never wanted them. second time around, she did have her litter natural and did the same thing, cleaned them as they were born, then started looking at them like a cat would watch a mouse, then snap. that litter was taken away and given to a surrogate mother mini dachshund that would raise ANYTHING and was very happy to do it.
Mini Schnauzer, the same way. have them,clean them and kill them. Her owner spayed her asap. I bottle raised the remaing pups for them.
My German shepherd would have hers, clean them let them nurse, and you just never knew when she would go in for the kill.
I muzzled her and let the pups nurse for a few days, then bottle raised the litter. she was never bred again. Since I already had knowledge of the other dogs, I was a little better prepared when she did it. I was with her when she whelped, then the stare came and the flicker of the upper lip, then the bite. she did have a muzzle on then just for safety, she could open her mouth enough to lick, but couldn't get a grip on the pup.
Come to find out, that is what she did with her previous owner and that is why they sold her, but didn't tell me those things when I bought her. she was a large female, good with people, terrible with any other pets/animals. she was spayed and placed. That was many years ago, and I don't remember who I got her from now.
I have seen this same thing happen in Pugs and mini daschunds too, in show lines and non- show lines/pets. I was a vet assistant for about 13 years and have been around various types of dog people. I am by no means an expert, but this is just what I have seen/done. I hope this helps you out some. I will tell you that even though it can be hereditary, the one little Corgi pup I bottle raised went on to be a mother and was most excellent at it.
1 of the Dobe pups that survived, did grown up and do the same thing as her dam.
The female you are having problems with, unless you want to literally sit with her and take the pups as she whelps and raise them yourself, or have a good surrogate mother----I would NOT use her for a breeding female, and I would NOT attempt to give them back to her.
The best to you.
Weezy.
I have had this happen. The veterinary said most likely a hormone issue and will likely happen again and again. the genetic potential is also there to be passed to her pups to do the same thing.
I have seen it in a welsh corgi, a doberman pinscher and one of my german shepherds. she was a dominant female and would try beating the crap out of an adult male too.
In the case of the Doberman--she would whelp, clean and nurse pups at the onset, kill them the next day. these people bred her 4 times, thought that she was doing well the last time as she actually cared for the pups to 3 weeks old at which time, she again turned on them and killed half of them before he got to her . litter of 7-8 that time.
the Welsh corgi, couldn't have her first litter, so was taken c-section and you can kind of expect something like that if the female wasn't actually able to give birth and then wake up with several things sucking, she didn't like it and proceeded to bite them. they were taken away and hand raised. first few days, she was laid down, muzzled and pups let nurse, she never wanted them. second time around, she did have her litter natural and did the same thing, cleaned them as they were born, then started looking at them like a cat would watch a mouse, then snap. that litter was taken away and given to a surrogate mother mini dachshund that would raise ANYTHING and was very happy to do it.
Mini Schnauzer, the same way. have them,clean them and kill them. Her owner spayed her asap. I bottle raised the remaing pups for them.
My German shepherd would have hers, clean them let them nurse, and you just never knew when she would go in for the kill.
I muzzled her and let the pups nurse for a few days, then bottle raised the litter. she was never bred again. Since I already had knowledge of the other dogs, I was a little better prepared when she did it. I was with her when she whelped, then the stare came and the flicker of the upper lip, then the bite. she did have a muzzle on then just for safety, she could open her mouth enough to lick, but couldn't get a grip on the pup.
Come to find out, that is what she did with her previous owner and that is why they sold her, but didn't tell me those things when I bought her. she was a large female, good with people, terrible with any other pets/animals. she was spayed and placed. That was many years ago, and I don't remember who I got her from now.
I have seen this same thing happen in Pugs and mini daschunds too, in show lines and non- show lines/pets. I was a vet assistant for about 13 years and have been around various types of dog people. I am by no means an expert, but this is just what I have seen/done. I hope this helps you out some. I will tell you that even though it can be hereditary, the one little Corgi pup I bottle raised went on to be a mother and was most excellent at it.
1 of the Dobe pups that survived, did grown up and do the same thing as her dam.
The female you are having problems with, unless you want to literally sit with her and take the pups as she whelps and raise them yourself, or have a good surrogate mother----I would NOT use her for a breeding female, and I would NOT attempt to give them back to her.
The best to you.
Weezy.
by realmccoy on 12 April 2011 - 17:04
are there any other female dogs around?
I remember when I was younger this happened to one of the litters.
We assumed it was because we got another female possibly a jelousy/protection issue.
This was her 5th or 6th litter about 12 pups, and she has never done that before with any previous litters. She killed 2 of her own puppies biting them by the neck.
We got rid of the other female. She had another litter without killing any of them before retiring.
Hope they do good with the surrogate, I'm glad she accepted them.
I remember when I was younger this happened to one of the litters.
We assumed it was because we got another female possibly a jelousy/protection issue.
This was her 5th or 6th litter about 12 pups, and she has never done that before with any previous litters. She killed 2 of her own puppies biting them by the neck.
We got rid of the other female. She had another litter without killing any of them before retiring.
Hope they do good with the surrogate, I'm glad she accepted them.
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