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by seltenruhe on 18 December 2010 - 03:12
I have a 5 month old working line, i dont want to mention pedigree as i am not intending any bashing just honest opinions. He has crazy prey drive which i am extremely happy with. He is very bonded with family, good in house and crate. Well socialized with going to parks, town, businesses and puppy classes both with me as trainer and having him with me and as a student for socialization. He is still scared of new people and surroundings. If we go into Petco he is okay if everyone keeps their distance, but if someone wants to pet him he tries to hide behind my legs. This started at about 3 months old, he has experienced no negative actions or events. I have never seen a puppy experience a fear stage so young and wanted to know if anyone else has?
What is your opinion? Fear stage and he can outgrow it, or temperament issue and not likely to mature into a confident dog?
Also went to have someone else do some tug play to see if he would be okay since he loves playing tug with us. He would only play if he had tug on fishing pole not out of his hands. If he tried to engage him with tug in hands he would hide behind my legs. Yet on the fishing pole with the decoy at a distance he was totally engaged in play.
What is your opinion? Fear stage and he can outgrow it, or temperament issue and not likely to mature into a confident dog?
Also went to have someone else do some tug play to see if he would be okay since he loves playing tug with us. He would only play if he had tug on fishing pole not out of his hands. If he tried to engage him with tug in hands he would hide behind my legs. Yet on the fishing pole with the decoy at a distance he was totally engaged in play.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 18 December 2010 - 03:12
It is typically called weak nerves. 5 months they are usually buttheads and are too much. Keep playing is all I can say, and take him as many places as you can.
by cphudson on 18 December 2010 - 18:12
Some puppies mature more slowly, & he is most likely going to be more aloof with strangers. He was socialized around people but not really interacting with them one on one. He is most likely confused now by the sudden switch of upfront interaction by other people. I have had dogs show this reaction about this age before which grew up to be wonderful dogs as adults, them seem to be more primal in response.
It could be a nerve issue also, it's hard to say from on-line. If your dog acts like he owns a new environment right away, or recovers fast from other things just as loud noises / strange objects, etc.. that's a good sign that he just needs to learn to accept more one on one interaction. But if he does show fear in the above also then it's more of weak nerves that he can not out grow.
I highly recommend taking him to confirmation classes, even if he'll never steps foot in a show ring.
Confirmation classes he'll be force to work on accepting a stranger to handle him in a positive way.
Also a agility obstacle work is a great confidence booster for dogs.
When you have him out in class / club's then work on him only getting a treat or food in he allows other people to approach him first, then work up to being touched. Don't allow him to hide behind you, give him a mild correction & tell him to sit / stand stay in front of you or on your side. Focus on his obedience not his scared reaction, you could be feeding him mixed signals & not realize it.
If you own another dog, or have friends with a very stable out going dog use that dog with training yours also. I did successfully with many foster dogs in the past. The older well socialized out going dog was a demo / teacher dog to the foster pup. Go to a public place like a park / outside of class, etc.. place where lots of people will approach you to see your dogs. When they do repeat the above obedience with your puppy. Ask the people to pay attention only to the demo dog, & give him treats + play with him.
Your puppy will eventually will want to join in the action & see all these people approaching the demo dog = good things for him why not me? When does start to approach people, have them throw down treats / toy with out making eye contact. Once he is more confident with these interaction then allow people to fully interact with him with treats & toys.
Good luck
It could be a nerve issue also, it's hard to say from on-line. If your dog acts like he owns a new environment right away, or recovers fast from other things just as loud noises / strange objects, etc.. that's a good sign that he just needs to learn to accept more one on one interaction. But if he does show fear in the above also then it's more of weak nerves that he can not out grow.
I highly recommend taking him to confirmation classes, even if he'll never steps foot in a show ring.
Confirmation classes he'll be force to work on accepting a stranger to handle him in a positive way.
Also a agility obstacle work is a great confidence booster for dogs.
When you have him out in class / club's then work on him only getting a treat or food in he allows other people to approach him first, then work up to being touched. Don't allow him to hide behind you, give him a mild correction & tell him to sit / stand stay in front of you or on your side. Focus on his obedience not his scared reaction, you could be feeding him mixed signals & not realize it.
If you own another dog, or have friends with a very stable out going dog use that dog with training yours also. I did successfully with many foster dogs in the past. The older well socialized out going dog was a demo / teacher dog to the foster pup. Go to a public place like a park / outside of class, etc.. place where lots of people will approach you to see your dogs. When they do repeat the above obedience with your puppy. Ask the people to pay attention only to the demo dog, & give him treats + play with him.
Your puppy will eventually will want to join in the action & see all these people approaching the demo dog = good things for him why not me? When does start to approach people, have them throw down treats / toy with out making eye contact. Once he is more confident with these interaction then allow people to fully interact with him with treats & toys.
Good luck
by GermanShepherd<3 on 18 December 2010 - 19:12
If I were you, I wouldn't just let him be to come outta his shell..he is young and if this behavior continues you will have a fearful dog that can turn into fear agression..You need to be gentle and create postive associations with people, and do not push him or you will make negative associations. Start out first by going into places where there are people..just walk around without petting or anything from anyone..just praise and treats from you for his behavior.
Next, when people come over if you know he is already okay with them just treat for his interaction with people and aske them to give him treats as well.
Possibly gather up some people who will be wiliing to help train..start with one your dog has never met. Let the stranger toss a treat from a distance comfortable to your dog a few times, and then that's the end of the session. You want your dog to think "that was it?" each time. Slowly each time try to inch closer and closer, if you see even a SLIGHT resentment don't push him..also if you see him scared do not try to say "oh its okay" and be reassuring..it can actually creat the opposite of him thinking you are okay with that behavior (happened to my foster). You can praise and "jackpot" (by giving a bunch of treats and praise) after you leave from that person. Do this in the same location each time, until your dog is comfortable with that person. Eventually try to go out for a walk the person and your dog..and then make sure to let your dog meet the person in other places, to generalize the behavior.
Once he is comfortable with this person..start with others, and right where you started from the beginning. Gradually your dog will learn to warm up quicker the more practice is done.
The most important thing of all though is to not make a negative association as this can be imprinted on your dog, and having people fear is one of the worst things possible...just be warm and kind, and be confident and gentle especially!
Good LUCK! this was something I did for my GSD foster, he had fear AGGRESSION (even worse) at age 1 1/2..by and by you will get there..the dog doesn't know any better, you have to teach them. :)
Next, when people come over if you know he is already okay with them just treat for his interaction with people and aske them to give him treats as well.
Possibly gather up some people who will be wiliing to help train..start with one your dog has never met. Let the stranger toss a treat from a distance comfortable to your dog a few times, and then that's the end of the session. You want your dog to think "that was it?" each time. Slowly each time try to inch closer and closer, if you see even a SLIGHT resentment don't push him..also if you see him scared do not try to say "oh its okay" and be reassuring..it can actually creat the opposite of him thinking you are okay with that behavior (happened to my foster). You can praise and "jackpot" (by giving a bunch of treats and praise) after you leave from that person. Do this in the same location each time, until your dog is comfortable with that person. Eventually try to go out for a walk the person and your dog..and then make sure to let your dog meet the person in other places, to generalize the behavior.
Once he is comfortable with this person..start with others, and right where you started from the beginning. Gradually your dog will learn to warm up quicker the more practice is done.
The most important thing of all though is to not make a negative association as this can be imprinted on your dog, and having people fear is one of the worst things possible...just be warm and kind, and be confident and gentle especially!
Good LUCK! this was something I did for my GSD foster, he had fear AGGRESSION (even worse) at age 1 1/2..by and by you will get there..the dog doesn't know any better, you have to teach them. :)
by SitasMom on 19 December 2010 - 06:12
I was told by a very experienced German trainer to:
1. take my dog to Starbucks every day for a month, down him under the table, and ask everyone to ignore him. Eventually he would decide that people are boring - then....
2. when taking my dog places, stand tall and proud and act proud of my dog - he would respond positively to my body language. then..... if we stopped to talk to someone, they were to ignore him. I was told to kept him in front of me and if he wanted to go up and smell the stranger it was OK, but no reaction from the stranger. then............
3. do obedience in every place I could think of, especially if my dog seemed worried or distracted. only do things that he was 100% on so he got lots of treats and positive feedback from me and make it fun!
4. and "NEVER make excuses for my dog - he is perfect!"
I followed the directions and after about 3 months, he was a completely different dog - he is wonderful now. I was causing many of these problems and by changing my way of thinking, my behavior changed and so did his.
1. take my dog to Starbucks every day for a month, down him under the table, and ask everyone to ignore him. Eventually he would decide that people are boring - then....
2. when taking my dog places, stand tall and proud and act proud of my dog - he would respond positively to my body language. then..... if we stopped to talk to someone, they were to ignore him. I was told to kept him in front of me and if he wanted to go up and smell the stranger it was OK, but no reaction from the stranger. then............
3. do obedience in every place I could think of, especially if my dog seemed worried or distracted. only do things that he was 100% on so he got lots of treats and positive feedback from me and make it fun!
4. and "NEVER make excuses for my dog - he is perfect!"
I followed the directions and after about 3 months, he was a completely different dog - he is wonderful now. I was causing many of these problems and by changing my way of thinking, my behavior changed and so did his.
by Sherman-RanchGSD on 20 December 2010 - 21:12
And yes, impossible to tell on a n email board to what extent if any you should e concerned...Regardless of the level or concern ..we should always continue to socialize the puppies and dogs.
+++4. and "NEVER make excuses for my dog - he is perfect!" +++
Good advice.. #4 my favorite (G).. and sooo true with MY dogs they are all angels.
Best wishes,
Debi
www.sherman-ranch.us
www.ironfistcreations.us
.
by Turk on 20 December 2010 - 23:12
could be his fear period - or a second fear period. This is normal. Just be the leader and pull him through it.
by seltenruhe on 21 December 2010 - 18:12
Thank you very much for the advice. We do have very social dogs that I have taken with us when we go out to hope he will feed off of them, so far he still stays back but doesnt try to hide if they are greeting strangers. I do try to make him sit/stay at my side instead of allow him to hide. We have a fenced yard and when UPS arrived yesterday he wouldn't approach the gate just stayed about 4 feet back and that was with my 9 year old male right at my side. So far he has never shown aggression towards anything. He loves other dogs although I limit his play with them and he is fearless of sights, sounds, weird footings or obstacles. Typical strong working dog in every other scenario. I am aware that odds are nerve I was just hoping to hear a few with fear stage experiences at this age. The only dogs I have had go through a fear stage were 8 - 10 months, not quite as fearful and they did outgrow it.
by jmopaso on 22 December 2010 - 01:12
It has been my experience that a truly confident dog is born. Many a hesitant or fearful dog can be made into a confident dog by the way they are handled and trained. Keep up the good work.
by LadyFrost on 22 December 2010 - 17:12
seltenruhe...
this is a bit different advice, but I had a Doberman 12 years ago and my Greek grandmother taught me that dog should always know who is in the house and she told me to do this which also helped tremendously with my dog who was always a bit skittish when meeting new people, so following her advice what I would do is I would let dog come inside the house after visitors (strangers to the dog) come into the house and let dog smell everyones shoes at the entrance, coats if they are hanging by the door, and then bring dog into the room usually it was kitchen since everyone would always gravitate there...for some reason after dog is familiar with smell and had freedom to "suck" the scent in he was a lot more relaxed with people...I later (about 2 years later) noticed that he would greed people in the same order he smelled shoes...it became sort of entertainment for visitors...but it made a huge difference in the dog, its like he was prepared for meeting strangers and was familiar with them before he faced them...
this is not your typical advice but figured I share it...who knows...it may work for you and you dog. :)
this is a bit different advice, but I had a Doberman 12 years ago and my Greek grandmother taught me that dog should always know who is in the house and she told me to do this which also helped tremendously with my dog who was always a bit skittish when meeting new people, so following her advice what I would do is I would let dog come inside the house after visitors (strangers to the dog) come into the house and let dog smell everyones shoes at the entrance, coats if they are hanging by the door, and then bring dog into the room usually it was kitchen since everyone would always gravitate there...for some reason after dog is familiar with smell and had freedom to "suck" the scent in he was a lot more relaxed with people...I later (about 2 years later) noticed that he would greed people in the same order he smelled shoes...it became sort of entertainment for visitors...but it made a huge difference in the dog, its like he was prepared for meeting strangers and was familiar with them before he faced them...
this is not your typical advice but figured I share it...who knows...it may work for you and you dog. :)
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