Strong sit and bark - Page 1

I was looking at an old thread with Koos Hassing saying some very interesting things about the modern GSD.  He said something to the effect that you can tell the soul of the dog thru his sit and bark.  Anyone have any strong sit and bark videos they would like to share?

old school

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC8WFvRXiI0

new school

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWj5hhnbpIg&feature=related


Kyle

Thanks for Sharing that video, Kyle.  I  will look for some to share of other excellent and intense dogs.

Great to see, he is my boys gt grandad, and my boy is very much like him in all ways, i do have some old film of him doing Sit and bark, will try and get it on the PC
Thanks for shareing Kyle :)

 So Kyle do YOU believe the soul of the dog is seen through  the hold and bark?

Consider that it has become more and more a shaped behavior exercize, evidence of not so much natural aggressive power but more to the skill of the trainer to frustrate the animal to the point of vocalization.

I would hazard to guess that more time is spent on teaching this exercize than any other in a Schutzhund routine, with the exception perhaps of footstep tracking.

Neither exercize attests to the strength of the dog, but more to whether or not the trainer knows how to get the points.

I did not see the video of Lary when I posted earlier.  I like Lary a LOT though I prefer his brother Leon.  I DON'T really like either of their Hold & Barks, only because of all the jumping,  though I do think brother Leon has one of the finest silent guards I have ever seen. 

The H & B can be the most difficult exercise for any dog and it is a very telling exercise (I think), when worked in defense.  When a dog is working in defense to me that means he is being deadly serious.  His instincs are telling him he must attack for self preservation,  but his training and his bidability are telling him he has been trained he must not touch the person, instead for what probably seems an eternity to the dog, he must sit there and bark and intimidate. 

I think it's easier to teach in prey, but then if left in prey drive,  and not moved to the realm of what the dog perceives as a threatening exercise, he then lacks a certain very obvious intensity that I am not good enough to describe but I know when I see it.  I think sometimes it is left this way to mask an issue, a dog who can't handle the pressure of the exercise when done correctly.  Of course there are dogs who are quite capable of working this exercize in defense but are worked  in prey for points. 

Perhaps this is a good reason not  to judge the whole of any dog based on one exercize!

EDITED TO ADD:  Sometimes all the jumping has to be left in even though it's faulty because some dogs need the outlet to control themselves.  Make no mistake, I think this whole litter are  very serious dogs.

BUT of that whole "L" litter my very favorite is sister Lena! 

Maybe but that's just because I am a girl too!  ONE thing is for sure that whole litter was REALLY nice.

"So Kyle do YOU believe the soul of the dog is seen through the hold and bark?"

Absolutely!

"Neither exercize attests to the strength of the dog, but more to whether or not the trainer knows how to get the points."

Here, you are referring to the "Sport" of schutzhund.  Not, what I reffer to as the "training system" of schutzhund.  The "Sport" has an end with the outcome being points and a picture.  The "training system" is the evealuation of the dog (the beginning) to see if it has what it takes to move on to security, police K9, SWAT K9, military K9 etc.  During this evaluation the dog is tied out and challenged, without equipmnt.  The dog is exposed to different surfaces, stairs, indoors, grips under a truck.  These are evaluations of nerve.  Just because modern trainers have changed their techniques to suit performance evaluations, does not mean the original purpose was false.

Breeding for points will not strengthen the working ability of the GSD anymore than a VA title.

I posted what I felt were 2 strong examples of a SB.  If you are not sure of how to bring these traits out in a dog may I suggest you search video of Bernhard Flinks, Gerald Groos, Mike Diehl, Horst Dieter Tragar and of course Koos Hassing.  All of these gentlemen are police K9 trainers/handlers and very accomplished schutzhund trainers/ handlers.

Kyle

Kyle I slightly disagree with you about schutzhund.  It takes a very strong dog, like this entire litter, to handle the pressure of being trained to high points in major trials.  If a dog does not have the nerves or the heart to handle the pressure he will not be capable of being trained to consistently high points year in and year out.  Dogs like these have what it takes to handle the pressure, which is what is meant by  the proof is in the points.