police K9 training-''VERY aggressive dog'' - Page 1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZTkz8eD2I&feature=related

 

what do people think of that dog ? and would you drop him out the program? i really like him

I Like Him, we couldn't have him the Uk obviously (Licenced) and he's far to much for me to deal with. I don't think he is a wrong 'un, off course it would help if we knew a bit about his training and background.

Also its about interpreting the behaviour, the seasoned Trainers on here would shed more light on the dog.

Big lump, I take it he is DH.

Ronin

fred has published other videos of training with a muzzle - for focus.  very interesting.  i was amazed the first time i saw his theories at work.  i would like to learn more in regards to (muzzle)  teaching the dog focus, clarity and control. 
about the k9 in question:  my first thought was that he had been trained badly from the start, but as the video progressed it became obvious that these were just the sort of excercises that he needed.  amazed again.  i do subscribe to fred's you-tube page and when i have time i really enjoy his videos.  just another way of looking at things.
pjp

I like this dog very much.  Obviously this behavior was tolerated for too long.  The handler took it well.  He did not hang the dog and stayed very calm.  I like how the diffused the situation with another line.  We use this technique with new handler.  If alone you could use a tie-out until the dog settles.But I would have to see the dog work and do OB to get a better opinion.  But I like how the dog settled and began to take commands from the handler.

Kyle

I could be wrong but it appears in the beginning of the video a different person than the handler is trying to work the dog in the muzzle.  The dog is "muzzle happy", meaning it expects to fight each time it is in a muzzle.  The easier fix is to do everything in the muzzle, tracking, OB, agility, etc.  Until the dog no longer associates the muzzle with aggression control.  That would be the easier, stress free and a conflict free way to do it.  With our dogs we introduce the muzzle early and do everything but aggression work in the muzzle for a few weeks.  My dog will track in a muzzle and do OB and scent work with no problems.  However, he will muzzle fight very aggressively. 


The handler at the end (2:54) of the video appears to actually be the dog's handler.  If this is the case, I have a problem with a stranger trying to handle someone else's Police K9.  I would never let this happen with my dog.  My dog, muzzle or no muzzle will act aggressively to a stranger taking his lead and giving him a correction. The reaction would be nearly identical, and the stranger would get bit or if my dog was muzzled, he'd be fighting the dog for sure.   If in fact, the first handler was not the assigned handler for this dog, then IMO the dog was absolutely correct.  I equate this too telling a stranger to go and smack my kids when they disobey.    Who would ever let a stranger discipline their child corporally?  Why would you ever let a stranger correct your Police K9?  That is the problem with these seminars, sometimes the person giving the seminar wants to show a quick fix. 

There is a lot that you don't see on that video.  Did the dog eventually comply with the new handler, sure.  But at what expense?  I will also say, that given the right opportunity that dog would nail that guy in a heartbeat.  I'd like to see the muzzle taken off that dog and the first handler doing the same thing again.  I'd like to see him lift the dog up that way with out a muzzle, he's getting nailed for sure.  That guy is smart enough not to do it.   

IMHO, that whole exercise was unnecessary and potentially detrimental to the dog.  What did a Police K9 learn from that?  Did he learn that a stranger can dominate him and make him submit?  Exactly, what I never want my dog to learn or experience.  I would have handled the whole control issue entirely differently.

JMO FWIW,

Jim

Good pick up!  I watched it again.  I see no point in a stranger working a K9.

what do people think of that dog ? and would you drop him out the program? i really like him

I really like the dog.  I would take him for a K9 in a minute, no I wouldn't drop him at all.  He's a good dog.

Jim

@Jim (Slamdunc)

Thanks much for you accessment of what was going on with this exercise in this video.  I watched it prior to your comments on it and knew that I didn't know enough to make very much sense out of it all.  I definitely had not clued into the "strange" handler aspect. Neither had I considered your proposed alternative to diffusing the dog's "muzzle happiness" in a more intelligent way.

Thanks again,

SteveO 

This is a patrol dog?  Hmm.

Looks like the muzzle was used wrong at some point, and the dog becomes very uptight and defensive when muzzled?  The solution would be to associate the muzzle with positive things, and to wear it as a piece of equipment for no reason, condition the dog to the muzzle.  And I agree, NOBODY should be handling the dog except the handler.  It is NORMAL and DESIRABLE for a Police K-9 or protection dog to attack anyone else holding the leash, they are one-person dogs.

Also, I am wondering, are they using the shock collar at all while the dog is muzzled and fighting?  Why are they using one at all?  What police departments are using  shock collars on their dogs?  I believe the dogs should be trained without having to depend on the shock collar.  They are not truly "off leash" trained otherwise.

It is funny how electric shock collar is then called e collar and now it is a "remote". LOL. What are they trying to hide? 
This is an excellent dog being subdued by E collar to do what he ought to do. There is no art in that. Fred Hassen is a good  trainer and exceptionally great marketer which builds on adage : You can not argue with success.  But the truth of the matter is that I would like to get to the dog through dog training rather then these mechanics no matter how successful they appear on the surface. Jim said it well in his first post.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com