This is a placeholder text
Group text
by ZeekBoy on 23 August 2010 - 04:08
I am new to GSD, have had 1 in the past, unfortunately, he had a heart problem, died of sudden death at a young age. Looking now for my second, wanting the pup for training in schuzhund, so have been reading, investigating, asking alot of questions, I have learned alot, some of it not so good.
Which leads to my pondering thoughts, to all of you GSD experts, I have heard that many breeders kennel their females after being imported or titled enough to show evidence of producing good stock, then breed the heck out of them, then they are discarded. Very sad indeed, as an animal lover, makes me sad to think of this scenario. In a perfect world, wouldn't the female of exceptional stock be revered, kept in the house, have her pups and then retire there?
Not from what I have heard, I suppose like everything else it is always about the almighty dollar, but it still bothers me a great deal. Is this as prevalant as I have heard, or are there some breeders who love their breeding stock and know them as household members? And if you had a number of dogs, couldn't they be rotated to have house time?
Maybe I am a dreamer, I suppose I will never be a breeder, because I couldn't cast off an old exceptional female, who made alot of money for me.
My thoughts to ponder, and a question to all of you, does anyone else ever feel this way?
Zeek
Which leads to my pondering thoughts, to all of you GSD experts, I have heard that many breeders kennel their females after being imported or titled enough to show evidence of producing good stock, then breed the heck out of them, then they are discarded. Very sad indeed, as an animal lover, makes me sad to think of this scenario. In a perfect world, wouldn't the female of exceptional stock be revered, kept in the house, have her pups and then retire there?
Not from what I have heard, I suppose like everything else it is always about the almighty dollar, but it still bothers me a great deal. Is this as prevalant as I have heard, or are there some breeders who love their breeding stock and know them as household members? And if you had a number of dogs, couldn't they be rotated to have house time?
Maybe I am a dreamer, I suppose I will never be a breeder, because I couldn't cast off an old exceptional female, who made alot of money for me.
My thoughts to ponder, and a question to all of you, does anyone else ever feel this way?
Zeek
by dogshome9 on 23 August 2010 - 04:08
Hello Zeek,
May be you have been looking or talking to the wrong breeders.
I have my first female now aged almost 10, she gave me 3 beautiful daughters from only 3 litters and they all still live here with me and they always will.
by skidoo on 23 August 2010 - 10:08
If you have so many dogs that they are getting very little individual attention is it not better to place one such dog in a loving home where that dog will be the center of attention? Consider that the new owner may have great desire for such a beautiful GSD but cannot pay a large amount of money for a well bred dog.
I have rehomed many a dog because they would not do the work. I get letters & pictures all the time thanking me & talking about the wonderful new life their dog has. My dogs went to childless couple that needed companion, 12 yr old boy newly back with his father who needed emotional safety, retired woman whose old dog was dying of cancer-my girl was deferential to the old dog, kissed the cat when she'd never seen one before & didn't chase the horses which she'd also never seen before! One went to a woman who took the obedience basics I'd given her for schutzhund (this dog would not engage the helper) & she got multiple titles on her in AKC.
One expensive young male was great in protection but did not care to do obedience. He went to a family with 3 kids-sleeps on the bed. They'd lost a dog that looked just like my guy. They love him to death. Nobody asks him for anything flashy, he's obedient around the house & he loves them back. One young female went to Tx to become the center of existence for a retired couple whose previous bitch had to be put down for fear aggression incident. This one now does agility & goes to the dog park everyday.
So all these dogs were well behaved, trained, had house manners. I did all the work. I found them forever homes where they will be cherished. The agreement is as always that they will come back to me if there is ever any problem or question of keeping them.
I think all their lives are an improvement on the alternative-getting shunted on affection & time & attention while some other dog gets top spot.
I learned when I did horses that you can't keep them all. If you put them out to pasture when you want something else that fits your improved skills then you've deprived some other person of the benefits that horse offers. There's a perfect fit for every dog & horse if you're diligent enough to seek it out. Everybody's happy.
I have rehomed many a dog because they would not do the work. I get letters & pictures all the time thanking me & talking about the wonderful new life their dog has. My dogs went to childless couple that needed companion, 12 yr old boy newly back with his father who needed emotional safety, retired woman whose old dog was dying of cancer-my girl was deferential to the old dog, kissed the cat when she'd never seen one before & didn't chase the horses which she'd also never seen before! One went to a woman who took the obedience basics I'd given her for schutzhund (this dog would not engage the helper) & she got multiple titles on her in AKC.
One expensive young male was great in protection but did not care to do obedience. He went to a family with 3 kids-sleeps on the bed. They'd lost a dog that looked just like my guy. They love him to death. Nobody asks him for anything flashy, he's obedient around the house & he loves them back. One young female went to Tx to become the center of existence for a retired couple whose previous bitch had to be put down for fear aggression incident. This one now does agility & goes to the dog park everyday.
So all these dogs were well behaved, trained, had house manners. I did all the work. I found them forever homes where they will be cherished. The agreement is as always that they will come back to me if there is ever any problem or question of keeping them.
I think all their lives are an improvement on the alternative-getting shunted on affection & time & attention while some other dog gets top spot.
I learned when I did horses that you can't keep them all. If you put them out to pasture when you want something else that fits your improved skills then you've deprived some other person of the benefits that horse offers. There's a perfect fit for every dog & horse if you're diligent enough to seek it out. Everybody's happy.
by Abby Normal on 23 August 2010 - 11:08
Zeek
I do feel the same way that you do, frequently. There are two aspects to your post.
The first, kennelling large numbers of breeding dogs versus home reared and house kept breeding dogs. This one is easy, you can tell the 'commercial' kennels by the amount of dogs that they have and the amount of puppies they are producing. Essentially the dogs are the main 'income' for the breeder. So in this you are right, it is the quest for money (and fame in the show world, to improve the price that puppies and young adults will fetch) that is the primary focus, not the well being of the individual dogs or the future of the breed.
The second, 'passing on' dogs which are past their 'sell-by' date. Mmmm this is a tough one. I do understand that it needs to happen on occasion. Personally I prefer a breeder who keeps their oldies, or just maybe occassionally rehomes if a particular situation arises where both dog and new owner will benefit by the arrangement. But not one that rehomes everything past breeding age as a matter of course, to make way for another puppy producer, or even worse - selling them when they are past it, squeezing every last penny out of the dog.
The smaller ethical breeders are out there, with some cracking dogs, certainly in the UK I can think of a few that I consider exceptional, but IMO they are not as common as I would like them to be, and we seem to be in a new age where 'top' dogs really are becoming simply a commodity, being sold for huge sums worldwide, which IMO is not ultimately good news for the future of this breed.
I do feel the same way that you do, frequently. There are two aspects to your post.
The first, kennelling large numbers of breeding dogs versus home reared and house kept breeding dogs. This one is easy, you can tell the 'commercial' kennels by the amount of dogs that they have and the amount of puppies they are producing. Essentially the dogs are the main 'income' for the breeder. So in this you are right, it is the quest for money (and fame in the show world, to improve the price that puppies and young adults will fetch) that is the primary focus, not the well being of the individual dogs or the future of the breed.
The second, 'passing on' dogs which are past their 'sell-by' date. Mmmm this is a tough one. I do understand that it needs to happen on occasion. Personally I prefer a breeder who keeps their oldies, or just maybe occassionally rehomes if a particular situation arises where both dog and new owner will benefit by the arrangement. But not one that rehomes everything past breeding age as a matter of course, to make way for another puppy producer, or even worse - selling them when they are past it, squeezing every last penny out of the dog.
The smaller ethical breeders are out there, with some cracking dogs, certainly in the UK I can think of a few that I consider exceptional, but IMO they are not as common as I would like them to be, and we seem to be in a new age where 'top' dogs really are becoming simply a commodity, being sold for huge sums worldwide, which IMO is not ultimately good news for the future of this breed.
by missbeeb on 23 August 2010 - 11:08
We are not in a "new age" Katrina... it has never been any different!
by Nellie on 23 August 2010 - 11:08
Sorry to say ,we are not in a new eara it's always been this way,we just have more doing it
by Abby Normal on 23 August 2010 - 12:08
Sorry guys - I don't remember it being so 'commodity' driven 40 years ago. Maybe I should have said it's been taken to a new level in the last few decades, or maybe as Nellie says there are just more doing it.
Still at I see MissB :) *sigh*
by missbeeb on 23 August 2010 - 12:08
No need to apologise...
by Abby Normal on 23 August 2010 - 12:08
Apologising for my memory considering I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday, so 40 years is stretching it a bit LOL
Does anywone else think it was not at this level 40 years ago? or is there no-one that old out there????
Does anywone else think it was not at this level 40 years ago? or is there no-one that old out there????
by Mackenzie on 23 August 2010 - 14:08
I agree with you Abbey Normal, I was there, the breed today is far from where it was forty years ago.
Mackenzie
Mackenzie
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top