West German Showlines throwing black pups??

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by Blkdog on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

Do any of you know of a West German Showline dog producing solid black pups? I know of someone who bred their West German male to a grey sable and got black pups and sables... I just never knew that showlines could produce black pups!

by noddi on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

YES THAT IS CORRECT.BOTH PARENTS HAVE TO CARRY THE GENE FOR BLACK.YU CAN GET A BLACK PUPPY OUT OF 2 BLACK GOLD/TAN ALSO.Carole S.

by BlackthornGSD on 10 April 2010 - 20:04

What was the pedigree, Blkdog? In general, it's true, the black color in GSDs is recessive and requires both parents to have it.

The exception would seem to be that some of the Russian dogs have a dominant black gene. You can see pedigrees of show dogs bred to black dogs and black dogs as the result--if you look back through the generations, there is one line of solid black dogs, just as would be the case if the dog had the dominant black gene. Whether this gene was introduced many generations ago by a cross with some breed such as a Giant Schnauzer or Belgian Shepherd or was a mutation, I have no idea. In the case of the dominant black, one parent would have to be black.

Christine
blackthornkennel.com

by Blkdog on 11 April 2010 - 00:04

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/478788.html

Here is the pedigree... I looked back and could only find some large black saddle dogs... I know my black bitch's parents are both black/red but her grandmother and so on are solid black, I just never heard of a West German dog producing blacks... Honestly that would be my dream dog! lol I love the west german dogs, but I love the black dogs too... He was bred to a working line female, a grey sable. I went back about 10-11 generations and couldn't find any black dogs... Interesting to me...

by Silbersee on 11 April 2010 - 00:04

Blkdog,
without knowing the people invovled, I would want a DNA certification on that puppy. While genetics are sometimes funny, it would take a miracle for that to happen.
But if that breeding happened in Germany, the SV has DNA samples in storage anyway and they can easily test that.

by BlackthornGSD on 11 April 2010 - 01:04

Cobra is the sire of the litter? (looks like a bitch to me from the picture--no dangly bits!)

by Silbersee on 11 April 2010 - 02:04

Christine,
did you go down to Apex to the show today?
If yes, please email me and let me know what you decided on? I am not nosey, I just wanna know, lol!

by BlackthornGSD on 11 April 2010 - 05:04

Will do!

by Blkdog on 11 April 2010 - 12:04

No sorry that is not the sire, but that is the dogs pedigree, since it is not my dog I wasn't sure if they would want me posting their dog on here... Here is a link to a site that I found that also has a black & red that throws blacks too, the males name is Pyro, I see similiar dogs in the backgrounds...

http://www.richthofengermanshepherds.com/males.html

by BlackthornGSD on 11 April 2010 - 16:04

Is it the sire throwing black puppies or the was it the dam he was bred to? He certainly doesn't seem to have the black gene anywhere in his pedigree. So, either he has the extremely unlikely black recessive, the dam has the extremely rare dominant black gene, he's not the father of the black puppy, or there's been an extremely rare color mutation. Which is most likely?

That breeder seems to have very nice dogs, very handsome and well cared for, and the dogs seem to have very nice bloodlines. I do think that if I had a black puppy out of that male, I'd have DNA tested the puppy (and perhaps they did).

Christine

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