Schutzhund / Protection Dogs with Children - Page 1

Hey All,

I have a couple question for the experienced, with children and dogs. 

I read a lot of postings about people purchasing older dogs already trained in protection or titled in sport.  There are a lot of ads where breeders/trainers state their dogs were raised with children and so forth, in turn will be fine with yours.  Can you truly say that?  I understand there is an adjustment / bonding period for everything and precautions need to be taken with any type of dog regardless of training.  Kids can be mean, without knowing.  I know first hand, because I have 4 of them who were all raised around every type of animal known to man and still have done things I didn't appreciate and neither did their behinds.

I have known some police officers where my kids played with their dogs just fine and also known that in the beginning of their relationship with those dogs, they were bitten several times initially.  I have lost contact with the officers over the years and never asked them.

Even with a dog raised in the family and trained in protection, how do you train specifically not to EVER bite a child.  There are many examples, children at play with other children, children playing with family or family friends, abuse unintentionally / intentionally from children.  Can you train a dog to differentiate.  I would assume no, personally.  Is that where command only comes into play.  You can take all precautions necessary but there are times where you forget, kids were faster than you and accidents happen, etc...

I have all the dogs I want, and I'm not purchasing one anytime soon.  I am curious for what you guys have to say.

If this has been posted previously, my apologies.  I wasn't able to search it out.

You don't mention how old your children are, and that makes a difference, but here is my experience, my son is nearly 8. I have had my male since before my son was born. When my son was younger and didn't realize how to truly behave around animals, he was never left unsupervised near the dog. I also imported a few adult dogs when he was very young, and again, they were never ever left unsupervised, and the dogs were always under my complete control. I did import one that ended up being very bad with people in general, and that dog was promptly returned to importer. Other than that one time, I have had very good success. Even now, I don't allow him alone with new dogs. It's just not a good idea, it's asking for trouble. Learn to read dogs body language. Most of the time they do announce when they have had enough, but many times people don't recognize the signs. Theresa

What good is a PPD if he has to be put up when people come over? What good is it if you cant take your dog in public? etc....

something like 90% of crimes in the home are from those whom the owner has met previously.

I have multiple sport and ppd dogs in my home and my ppd dog is left out at all times. Throughout the day and when im home. A child should never be unsupervised with dogs. Even the safest dog that loves children. However a properly trained dog should be descriminate enough as well as the handler should have enough control over the dog to be safe in any enviroment.  

I knwo two men whom put on schh/ protection demos and then call the kids out while the dog is in a down and have like 8 kids love on the dog. In which this dog adores children. To prove that protection work doesnt create vicious killer dogs.

I have photos of my two protection trained males at fairs and such in large groups of kids playing with them. Il see if i cant pull some of them up. here is one I found at a rescue event.
 


OP,

You should have someone that can and will temperament test dogs tohelp you choose the specific type of dog that would meet all of your requirements. they are out there. you just have to be picky. You should also probably consult someone on a handler course as well to understand how to maintain the training and control needed to own this type of dog.

I agree with you Yoshy the point about what use is a protection dog if it was locked up. I was merely responding to the OP given examples; "children at play with other children, children playing with family or family friends, abuse unintentionally / intentionally from children. Can you train a dog to differentiate."

Here is a situation amongst friends and family, adults and children on a bright sunny day fooling around, screaming child who doesn’t want to be tickled (who knows), playing thief and robbers (who knows), catch me if you can etc, etc, etc.    Being host and supervising dogs are two separate roles.

It is not like having strangers/ mere acquaintances visiting where you would need your protection dog to be around.

Sure dogs can be taught to respect children and friends but on the same token, respect ought to be shown to the dog too. JMHO.

most of the schh / protection dogs have, built in, high social agression, pack and other drives.  Most breeder ads like to post pictures of their dogs with kids etc. AND  these are highly trained animals not "pet quality or the average family companion."  Some pictures can be misleading as well.

I am in agreeance with turk and posiedon.

Posiedon,
Yes but thats were being present and having your absolute obedience comes in as well as the socialization to those style occassions.

PS wasnt trying to throw you under the bus. was just trying to re-direct them on a path that may be better suited for what they are looking for. My apologies.

Turk, is right as well. It has been my experience dogs need to be groomed to the atmosphere they will live in to be bomb proof so to speak. As well has to be a particular type genetically for the work assigned. Me personally i wouldnt by an title trained sport dog to throw into a family enviroment.To many things can go wrong.  I would consult someone whom is training and grooming dogs for executive protection and or family protection dogs. Attached with handler courses so the family can learn to handle the dog and how to respect the dog. As well as how to continue the training to maintain your investment and not leave yourself in a situation that could become a liability.

depends on the dog, some dogs do well with kids, some dogs don't

No apologies necessary Yoshy.  Your contributions are usually spot-on :)

My current dog who is nearly 3 years old is my first GSD.  I got her to do schutzhund.  She does has a civil streak in her. When she was 10 months old off leash in a park, there were 5 teenagers playing rough among themselves approaching us. All of a sudden, one guy did a flying kick with an outburst to one of his mates and my dog who was then sniffing the ground, made a B-line for him as he started running.  It took me by surprise and I could not call her back.  I resorted to shouting to the guy to STOP  (like a LE would to thieves)  When he did, my dog was just next to him and I managed to recall her back.  Once on the lead, the swearing I got was a earfull!  Since then, I have been ever so vigilant.  When I see any dunkards or hear any unsual screaming and shouting, I will have her on the lead just so she doesn't have to take the role to protect me (so to speak).

There is so much aspects to owning a dog that will protect and yet follow commands.  I am still learning as I go with my dog.  BTW, she is good with children as long as they are not poking her in the eye.

These are GREAT postings.  Everyone is so polite, it is refreshing. I too have Schutzhund dogs. Schutzhund dogs are taught to only bite the sleeve because that is the sport. Personal protection dogs are different. That said, a well trained dog is a well trained dog but they are still dogs. Poseidon was exactly right about family gatherings and kids playing ect. Even the family pet could think a screaming child was in danger and rush in to protect.
A judge once told me that everyone feared the Shepherds but the Goldens bit her everytime.