Slow outs & bothering the helper (after outs) - Page 1

I just wanted to get some idea's and suggestions on different methods to fix these problems. Needless to say we racked up the points in this area at our first trial. Take a look, lol: http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=102197&cdate=20060829&ctime=052342 Courage test: http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=78828&cdate=20060829&ctime=165624 Thanks, Melanie

Melanie, Tried to email you off list but it bonced back to me.. can you email me?? Denise

Saw the videos of both protection and OB. Protection, first thing this seems to be a trial and the helper if he is a trial helper needs to be a little more correct in is work...more crisp. He does not lock up and stand still allowing the dog a couple times to move the sleeve prior to the out. You need to make it very clear for the dog. Black and white NOT grey. Also when the helper stops the drive he needs to lock up, stand still... NOT look at the judge then look at the handler... that's too much. Train your dog to "out" with the helper standing still, moving around a bit, with distractions, with the helper sitting on the floor, with the helper laying on the ground, with the sleeve behind the helper...teaching the dog to "out" regardless of the position of the helper. Also I looked at the the OB video. Tip... you look like your marching, very stiff......RELAX, it's only a trial. I know ...easier said than done LOL. At times your dog was lagging during the heel more so because of the handler. And for pete's sake have the group WAIT until you leave the group before they walk off the field running into you and the dog. Your retrieves were very nice. Retrieves could be a little faster but your Dog showed a lot of spirit. He was definitly wanting to please his handler. I'd work on the finish, get them a little faster. Your send out was nice. Overall not bad. You did a good job. What was your final score.

Thanks for the tips VHDOOSEK9. LOL, about the arm swinging, I know, I didn't realize how retarted I looked till I watched the video, I'm definitely going to work on that. BUT I used to do AKC OB and when I started SchH I used to get shit for pasting my left hand on my stomach, I guess my nerves took me to the other extreme. Scores 81-87-81=249. DKiah, I can't figure out how to change my emial, its GSDfan1@yahoo.com Thanks, Melanie

""""Protection, first thing this seems to be a trial and the helper if he is a trial helper needs to be a little more correct in is work...more crisp. He does not lock up and stand still allowing the dog a couple times to move the sleeve prior to the out"""" I Agree Uwe except, the dog needs to release on command no matter what the helper is doing!!!! If you teach the dog to release when the helper goes dead prey than you need to change that.. If you teach the dog to out without correction, which it shows, the dog has no respect for your words and knows you will not back it up. Out means Out, but it can also mean Out and then reward "with another grip". Many Many ways to fix this, but you need to work it as long as he has been training in grip work to have it 100%!!! Best Regards, DJ

hi -- yes in SDch the helper needs to lock up and not move as to signal , bite to the dog -- but ... a very vey big but here ---- SO WHAT ... not to comparew but to share ..in ring sport .. does not matter if the helper and decoy os still in moption when you goive the oput command eithewr verbal or whistle -- it is a matter of training -- my GSD trained on body suite will out asx described -- first time on a Sch sleeve -- arm in motion still outed on request -- -- a suggestion to share --- teach out is out no matter the context --- it's all in the communivcatiuon and training -- oh boy Schutzhund .. no wonder i laugh

If the dog is getting dirty, you can try training an aus platz. Jeff

Gsdfan, I have a few questions about your dog. I watched his behavior after the outs and i have a few questions about his temperament. He looks back alot and he isn't showing me alot of attention in the work. I'm also looking at the helper and he doesn't show a challenge to the dog as well. So for me it hard to tell if the problem is in the nerves of the dog or what. Let all just assume the nerves on your dog are great and its simply just that he has a head of stone to compliment his high drive.One thing i can say is the teaching of the out wasn't completely taught at young age. Can you please give some insight about how you taught the out? I would suggest go back to basics and teach the out again. Also work on one thing at a time. when teaching the out i wouldn't worry about any other behavior until i know he has the out completely understood. Attention to the helper blah blah blah should all be worked individually.Isolate the out and work that till every member in the club tells you to move on to something else.In the club tht i train(3 of our club members are competing at teh world championships this yr in denmark) we know that dogs are thinking animals.If you agree that they use their mind and think about things too then why not give him a correction for thinking about re biting. Timing is everything in this matter. Email me if you want and i can give you a more detail method of teaching the out. ceddy

Ceddy, No nothing wrong with nerves here. Long story short- He was a police dog for 3 years before I got him at 5 yrs old (dept. lost funding). I've had him for about a year (6mos part-time, 6mos full time). When I first started SchH he was full of power & aggression during bitework with very little OB or respect. He was hard headed & stubborn wanting to do things his way. Up until this point we've mainly focused on cleaning him up in the blind and OB in the presence of the helper. I was advised not to try fixing too many things at once, so until now the back half of the routine wasn't really addressed. I knew he'd out all-be-it slow, but I haven't really outed him that often since we were working on other things he'd frequently win the sleeve to reward good behavior. Once we cleaned him up in the blind and had sufficient OB and control (also worked hard with OB routine & tracking) I went for his SchH1 title. I wasn't trying to get on the world team or anything, lol, Just looking to pass. I figured I'd fine tune him up later. Also since he's 6yrs old I felt that time is of the essence with regards to getting his titles moving. As for the looking back, yes I wasn't happy to see that, but if you really want to know what I think...he was looking to see how far away I was to get in a few more jabs. I dunno, maybe he just doesn't see the helper as a serious threat, but I think its mostly because we haven't worked on it yet. Now that I got his SchH1 and he's doing well in the blind I think its time to move on- so that was the reason for my original post- I always like to hear different training methods. My main objective is to make it clear so as not to create any more problems for myself. Regards, Melanie

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