How do you read this behavior? - Page 1

My spayed female has a wonderful temperament. She is not aggressive at all and is great with people and animals.  In our family pack (three adults and one cat) she is very submissive and obedient, never displaying any kind of alpha behavior, although she will playfully swat the cat every so often, but is quickly put in her place. She will even let the cat eat with her out of the same bowl. She loves meeting new dogs and when she does, she is very happy and excited. When she meets them, she wags her tail (it is clearly a "happy" wag), does the normal doggie butt smelling greeting and sometimes she will playfully "swat" the other dog or bow to play. Her ears are always up, head and tail held high like an alpha dog, but always happy and playful. More times than not, even if she doesn't playfully swat the other dog, she gets growled at or snapped at, even by dogs that people claim are very friendly with other dogs. Sometimes a simple nose sniff and a dog will growl at her. When they growl at her she immediately backs off and walks away and/or comes to me, with her head hanging down and a sad rejected look on her face. My thought it is that she must be preceived as a threat for some reason, but I don't know why. She is truly as harmless as any dog could be. Any thoughts as to what is going on?
Thanks,
Char   

When she wags her tail is it held low or up high?  Is it stiff when she wags it?  How about her head?  You said she keeps her ears forward, is her head held high, is she stiff legged?  If she is doing this she is being aggressive.  She is trying to make herself look bigger and the other dogs are picking up on it.  She may appear to be playful but she could be challenging them more than inviting them to play.  Try making her platz when she is meeting a new dog.  Put her in a submissive position and see how she reacts.  Stand on the leash to make sure she stays submissive. By swatting" at the other dog she could be trying to gain the upper hand so to speak.  I don't think she is as passive as you think.  JMHO

Thanks for the input! The tail is high, but not stiff. Yes, she is somewhat stiff legged. I will definitely say that she seems extremely confident when approaching other dogs. I have had her platz in the presence of other dogs and she is fine with it. She will remain in a platz with no force until I release her. The other dog(s) can walk all around her, smelling her and so forth and she does nothing except try to smell them and whimpers a little. She is a rescue so I know nothing of her past. I wonder if it possible that she simply doesn't know how to behave with other dogs? I have noticed that when she plays with my sister's Border Collie she can be a bit rough. I have definitely suspected that she may be a "closet" alpha:), but then again, how can her behavior of immmediate retreat be explained when she is growled at or snapped at? Could it be she is simply conflicted?
Thanks again,
Char

Thanks for the input! The tail is high, but not stiff. Yes, she is somewhat stiff legged. I will definitely say that she seems extremely confident when approaching other dogs. I have had her platz in the presence of other dogs and she is fine with it. She will remain in a platz with no force until I release her. The other dog(s) can walk all around her, smelling her and so forth and she does nothing except try to smell them and whimpers a little. She is a rescue so I know nothing of her past. I wonder if it possible that she simply doesn't know how to behave with other dogs? I have noticed that when she plays with my sister's Border Collie she can be a bit rough. I have definitely suspected that she may be a "closet" alpha:), but then again, how can her behavior of immmediate retreat be explained when she is growled at or snapped at? Could it be she is simply conflicted?
Thanks again,
Char

Our female GSD is non-aplha in the sense that she isn't overly dominant but she isn't exactly submissive either. She is fine with a calm dog that approaches her quietly and greets her respectfully.  If a strange dog tries to sneak a swat in during the greeting or charges at her to play before the greeting, she takes offense and snaps and snarls until the offender backs off.  If she initiates play, then anything goes and she is fine with the other dog playing rough, swatting, biting, etc.  It's obvious that she's got a desire to set the rules though she isn't a bully about it.  I'd guess your GSD isn't as submissive as you think either.  :)

Thanks KileysHuman, Shelby is different than your dog in that she doesn't care how a dog approaches her, whether calmly or in an excited manner. If the dog is continually too overbearing she will just quietly retreat, deciding she really doesn't want to be around the dog, but she never shows any sign of aggression, even if the dog is relentless. One time she was introduced to an alpha male and she clearly didn't like him. He was not aggressive at all, but clearly an alpha dog and I guess she felt threatened? She snubbed him totally- wouldn't even look at him and she sulked.

I know this is a boring topic for many, but I'd love to figure out what is going on in the mind of Shelby.  Also trying to figure out why so many dogs don't like her, although I think I have my answer to that. As both you and DebiSue said, she is not all that submissive and through her body language she displays dominance, which the other dogs consider a threat. I guess there is not much I can do about that.  I just always thought alpha dogs were more confrontational and that other dogs would readily submit, unless the other dog was also an alpha dog. My previous boy was an alpha and there was no question about it. He was fine with calm, submissive dogs, but if the other dog showed a sign of challenging him, he was in their face immediately and would not back down. He was great with our family and like Shelby, he was very obedient and never challenged me.

Not a boring topic.  There are lot of opinions on this site to seek out. 

Without being there it is hard to comment.  But I do have an opinion that may differ from others.  I am assuming she is older than 6 months? 

• Why is she allowed to run up and approach strange dogs anyway?  I don't let my dog go up to just any dog. Just like you wouldn't let your kids run up and play with just anybody. 

•  If your dog came running up to my dog in the way you are describing, my dog would not appreciate it. It is almost like she is bothered by dogs are "unmannerly" around her.

• If you have no control of your dog, the other dog's will take control and try to put her in her place.

• So, my thought is that she is just too enthusiastic and it bugs the other dogs.  Some might be just fine with her behavior, others not.  Not every dog she meets will like her and visa versa. That is ok, I don't like everyone I meet either.  It is up to you to decide with who and how she interacts with strange dogs. 
   

Hi ForFoxyRoxy,
I know that you don't know me, so I understand why you would ask those questions, but Shelby is always under my control and usually on a leash. Even if she is off leash she is very obedient. I NEVER allow her to run up to any dog. I also never attempt to let her meet another dog unless I talk to the owner first to get a feel for both the owner and dog. In my life there are just many situations where there are other dogs present.  I greatly appreciate your comments and if you have any other thoughts I'd love to hear them. I do think her enthusiasm is part of the problem, but I also she think she may have some alpha tendencies, but I am not a behavioral expert.
Thanks again,
Char

Hi  Char,

Thanks for clarifying.  I see all to often folks letting their dogs run up to other dogs and then wonder why the other one gets defensive.  So, that is the picture I had in my mind.  

 Sounds to me like she is excited and domininant all at the same time meeting other dogs.  To us we see the excited/enthusiastic part.  Dog's see the dominant/trying to make a point part more quickly.  Are you asking for techniques on how to introduce her to other dogs so the can play together?  

Also, it sound like you have a very nice dog.  If that is the only problem with your rescue GSD that is wonderful and I am sure she is lucky to have you.
Cara

 Hi Cara,

Thank you again for your response and your kind words. Yes, I would like to try some techniques to help and avoid her getting growled and snapped at. I realize it is her "fault", but I think the poor girl could be getting a complex :-(.  I am open to any suggestions to try. Shelby is a fairly soft dog and a real pleaser, so I prefer to try positive techniques. Up to this point I haven't tried anything at all except to be watchful for aggression on the part of other dogs, or if I sense she is getting too pushy, I'll take her away from the dog.  

As for whether or not this is her only problem, I guess it depends on what you call a problem. She has been harshly treated so in the beginning she was fearful of anything that resembled a rope and she would shrink to the floor at the sight of a leash or anything like that. A year later, she now knows that a leash really does mean that fun is on it's way and gets excited at the sight of it. She was also overly submissive at first, but is much better. I've had to take the training process very slowly and have used predominately marker training and positive reinforcement- short sessions and no pressure. She shuts down under pressure. The only real negative at this point is that she has no drives, except maybe a little prey drive. Whether or not she ever had any, I'll never know. She doesn't even play with toys. She starts to, but then she quickly stops. I've tried to build her drives, but haven't had any success. I am open to sugggestions for that too! She is very sweet, very well behaved and very responsive.  She will make a perfect Therapy Dog so in November I am taking her for her CGC and Therapy Dog evaluation. We already go to a nursing home and rehab and she is wonderful.  

Again, I am open to any suggestions. Thank you again.

Char