"Shiloh" Shepherd - Page 1

My name is Terry and I own 2 ISSR Shiloh Shepherds. I have two of the best dogs I have ever met. I find it very interesting that people on this message board are so very opinionated on what seems to be a true lack of information. All breeds started somewhere, the Shiloh happens to be a breed under developement at this time. Shiloh Shepherds are not King Shepherds, I can't really comment about the Kings as I have never met one. Shiloh's have a very different tempermentthan a GSD. A "hard" temperment in a Shiloh equates with a medium to a medium soft temperment in a GSD. Shiloh's come in both a plush coat and a smooth coat. (Ours happen to both be plush) Do Shiloh's have health problems? Statistically no more than the GSD. Tina Barber and the ISSR, LMX and Health Surveys are working very diligently to lessen the probablility of CHD, EPI, etc. As far as the health issues - like with any other bred dog one might buy or adopt - do your your research on the parents and the breeder. Yes there is a Malamute outcross in the breed, which does give the dogs larger bone structure and a straighter topline than a GSD. GSD are wonderful dogs, we decided that a Shiloh would better suit our situation. We got our first one in 2002 and our second in 2005. They are both VERY healthy, CGC certified. We raw feed, so we don't follow the feeding agreement, nor do we supplement with anything more than Solid Gold Seameal once a week. If you really do your research and decide that a Shiloh is not for you, that's fine. But they are no more a threat to GSDs than a Belgian Tervuren or a Malinois. It is just a different breed of dog that has its roots from the GSD. I would suggest checking out the website that Tina Barber herself supplied for you, www.shilohshepherds.org Thank you

I bought one of those "great ISSR shilohs", also. I paid about $1300+ dollars for my dysplastic dog that had temperament issues and took me about 6 months to get healthy from being riddled with coccidia, worms, and over all poor health and conditioning. The breed founder sold her to me and THEN wanted her bred after a prelim OFA report came back with a diagnosis of moderate dysplasia with every subcatagory checked off...remodeling of the femeral head, subluxations, thickening of something...because she thought that she "looked" different than all her siblings. My vet didn't understand why anyone would breed dysplasia back INTO the breed. This was suppose to be a registry with a "higher standard". Can you imagine if THAT is the higher standard...it is what is the "hidden" truth verse the "proclaimed" truth. Go to OFA....you won't see ISSR shilohs listed. The founder uses a TON of smoke and mirrors and like someone said earlier....then runs to the banks with the checks, laughing all the way! There are blogs up about the past infractions with clients that went through the court systems and there are at least three clients that sued the kennel of origin, recently, and WON all cases for a HOST of reasons. What a sad sad thing it all is. Anyway...that is my personal experience with the ISSR. Not as good as the guy before me...guess it is in the luck of the roll or how much you get soaked for your dog...who knows. My advice...stay away altogether from the ISSR shilohs. JMHO....but like someone else said...do your research..that CERTAINLY will tell you a lot but don't go to their OWN propoganda sites....it is like a political campaign trail..of course they claim wonders, they want to get "funded"! All the "facts" and "wonders" are written by, you got it, none other than the founder and the ISSR. I believe they even went so far as to write a storybook to try and boost failing sales. ROTF!! What's next?! LOLOLOL Oh well. Just my thoughts on the whole thing, from first hand experience. I am after the founder gets wind of this posts this group will get a barage of posts because she will "rally" the troups! So hang on list...you're in for some rough sailing now that you used the word "Shiloh". LOLOLOLOL

While understanding that the "Shilo Shepherd" is not a German Shepherd, It is interesting to look at it as a breed. Here is a caveat, however. The chickens are just now coming home to roost on Many of the "designer dogs" such as Labradoodles, Cockapoos, etc., and we're finding a whole host of health and temperament problems from mixing different breeds. Genetics are a funny thing. Have the Shilo's been around long enough to claim enough data to prove that there aren't the same maladies? I'm asking. I don't know. You say that they are "under development." I think, of course, that it would better not to dilute the German Shepherd blood with Malamute but to continue work to make it better, always better. That is just my personal opinion. Anyway, it sounds like you sure do love your dogs and I wish you all the best.

I like what you had to say. I have always said Tina was very persuasive. It can be pouring down rain outside and if you listen to her long enough she will convince you the sun is shining. One thing I wonder-I always read the breed is still in developmental stages. How long does this last? Is that just a catch phrase or.......................

Good question Vonissk, I think there are claims from the founder that she has been working on this breed since the 60's? I guess it takes a long time. There is claim of a formula, but I gets the 'batches' keep getting botched. I would think that there would be enough "data" since there is a claim of 10's of thousands of dogs in a data bank somewhere that it could go under scrutiny and gain recognition. But each time it is submitted for breed recognition by any organization, it is kicked out. So I guess the "formula" it not that good. You would think that after 40+ years of "trying to get it right", you would have, if you had even a SLIM idea of what you were doing. There are claims that pop up every now and again that the breed is going for FCI or some recognized organization attempt, but as far as I know, to date, it has not been recognized nor will it be. There have been european dogs called Altdeutscher Shaeferhund's (a dog named Artus) bloodlines brought into the breed, and most recent a White German Shepherd (Orbit) from Rin Tin Tin kennels, and possibly a Cech Wolf Dog name Maestro, I saw his pedigree, wow, scarey, is being used in the ISSR blood lines. So I guess the breed is still being worked on after 40+ years if studs from other breeds are still bringing brought into the bloodlines of the ISSR shilohs.

iamgateway, That is an awfully long time to be in "development". Just for a matter of perspective, look at Horand von Grafath, and then look at some of the historic dogs from the 1920s and 1930s. In less than 40 years, we went from Horand (who, while a valuable foundation dog, wouldn't be recognizable as a GSD today) to dogs like Hussan vom Haus Schutting (VA1 1932) and Odin vom Stolzenfels (VA1 1933) that look much like modern German Shepherds today.

shilo's -- just goes to show how ignorant people are when it comes to genetics and what it takes to not merely start but rather create a new breed of canine -- with all the 400 plus breeds dogs in the world -- you mean to tell me these new breeders of new breed dogs can't find an existing breed to suit the need -- please people -- give me a break --labradooldes and shilos etc etc --IMO.. just another way to exploit someone for dollars

MJ Memphis, I think it is a very long time, personally. I also think that the claims from the ISSR of a "true vision" and the only "real" formula are very blurred, if it has taken them decades and decades and STILL they are in "development" and haven't gotten it right. Its all very interesting...and would make ME raise an eyebrow and wonder why they can't get the formula correct or get the recognition the want. What is being hidden in the mist of all that "data" or is there data? I think there will always be "claims" of so called possible future recognition to dupe the public into believing they have a vision. In reality, I have the opinion that the "ISSR" shilohs will never see breed recognition from any organization. First, I doubt there is actual proof of any data, Second, there is so much "secrecy" behind the bloodlines. Third and the number ONE reason I feel it will never come to be; it would hurt the "purse strings" if someone else was given the registry. The "head honcho" breeder will never give it up to anyone. They wouldn't be able to financially survive if they didn't get all the funds plus the sales of the dogs, plus it would lesson the ability to pled "the need" for financial assistance from the membership for all that "they do". The dogs are the money makers, the membership picks up the slack. From the internet claims on litters born, I looked at a window, the year 2002 (data ended in 2004) and the breed founder's kennel alone produced 13+ litters/co-owned litters. It seemed to be the norm per year as I counted up the rest of them...give or take a few litters with each previous and post year. To me that is MASS production of dogs. And if each puppy is bringing in $1500 dollars per puppy, 6-10 puppies average per litter. Do the math. And STILL, it is a breed in development???? And that is a single kennel! WOW!!! I sure would question the ability to "develop" anything if they dont' "have it" yet!! Again, these are just my own personal opinions. And yes, I did feel duped by them and that leaves a sore spot. But years, numbers and data doesn't lie. How can one claim extreme perfection and "wonders" and grandeur as you will read in all the propaganda, yet still be working to "figure it all out" (still developing the breed)? It just doesn't add up....at least not in common sense, I bet it adds up a whole lot different in $$$$$$$$$$$.

The Shiloh or King are very unhealthy animals in general and the hips almost are always bad in these oversized dogs. I would suggest you get your dogs hips done. I am sure the breeder told you there were no more problesm than a regular german shepherd which is not the case...type in on the interent THE MANY DIFFERENT SHEPHERDS IN AMERICA and it talks about the King/Shiloh shepherds with description.

The outcross German Shepherd, Orbit, that was brought in to the ISSR bloodlines was from Hoofprints kennels, not Rin Tin Tin kennels. Orbit's sire was from Rin Tin Tin kennels. I belive his name was Rin Tin Tin's Stonewall Jackson and the dam was Hoofprints Abby, I believe. I also checked the OFA data base, since the ISSR claims to be so strict on health data and health records. I just thought I would check on the dogs health certifications from the site itself. I couldn't find anything? I only found three Hoofprint GSD's in the data base, none of which were Abby and although, there were 20 Rin Tin Tin GSD's, no Stonewall Jackson? It just all seems so contradictory to the claims made on the propaganda sites designed by them? There was also another bloodline dog by the name of Shilohs Secret Samson Woo...that pedigree has been debated for years. He wasn't anything pure. A pretty mix of a dog that was used to "develop"...oh wait...."attempt to develop" and further the vision of the founder. I don't know, it just all sounds like the guidance that the founder is giving is not very "visionary". Maybe someone needs glasses?