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by Aqua on 09 March 2012 - 16:03
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4199/23/5/3
" No dog representing the Pekingese and Bulldog breeds will compete in Thursday evening’s Best in Group competitions at Crufts after they failed the new veterinary checks that have been introduced to the show.
The Best of Breed award was not given to Pekingese, Palacegarden Bianca, or Bulldog, Mellowmood One In A Million, following their veterinary checks, which were carried out by an independent veterinary surgeon. This means that the dogs will not be allowed to continue into the Toy or Utility Best in Group competitions respectively.
The Kennel Club has introduced veterinary checks for the Best of Breed winners at all Kennel Club licensed General and Group Championship Dog Shows from Crufts 2012 onwards, in 15 designated high profile breeds. This measure was introduced to ensure that Best of Breed awards are not given to any dogs that show visible signs of problems due to conditions that affect their health or welfare.
The fifteen high profile breeds are as follows: Basset Hound, Bloodhound, Bulldog, Chow Chow, Clumber Spaniel, Dogue De Bordeaux, German Shepherd Dog, Mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, Pekingese, Shar Pei, St Bernard, French Bulldog, Pug and Chinese Crested.
Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club Secretary, said: “We are determined to ensure that the show ring is a positive force for change and that we help to move breeds forward by only rewarding the healthiest examples of a breed.
“The veterinary checks were introduced to ensure that dogs with exaggerated features do not win prizes. The independent veterinary surgeon decided that the Pekingese and Bulldog should not pass their checks and therefore they did not receive their Best of Breed awards and will not be representing their breeds in the remainder of the competition. ”
Is it too much to hope that the AKC will follow suit?
" No dog representing the Pekingese and Bulldog breeds will compete in Thursday evening’s Best in Group competitions at Crufts after they failed the new veterinary checks that have been introduced to the show.
The Best of Breed award was not given to Pekingese, Palacegarden Bianca, or Bulldog, Mellowmood One In A Million, following their veterinary checks, which were carried out by an independent veterinary surgeon. This means that the dogs will not be allowed to continue into the Toy or Utility Best in Group competitions respectively.
The Kennel Club has introduced veterinary checks for the Best of Breed winners at all Kennel Club licensed General and Group Championship Dog Shows from Crufts 2012 onwards, in 15 designated high profile breeds. This measure was introduced to ensure that Best of Breed awards are not given to any dogs that show visible signs of problems due to conditions that affect their health or welfare.
The fifteen high profile breeds are as follows: Basset Hound, Bloodhound, Bulldog, Chow Chow, Clumber Spaniel, Dogue De Bordeaux, German Shepherd Dog, Mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, Pekingese, Shar Pei, St Bernard, French Bulldog, Pug and Chinese Crested.
Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club Secretary, said: “We are determined to ensure that the show ring is a positive force for change and that we help to move breeds forward by only rewarding the healthiest examples of a breed.
“The veterinary checks were introduced to ensure that dogs with exaggerated features do not win prizes. The independent veterinary surgeon decided that the Pekingese and Bulldog should not pass their checks and therefore they did not receive their Best of Breed awards and will not be representing their breeds in the remainder of the competition. ”
Is it too much to hope that the AKC will follow suit?
by SitasMom on 09 March 2012 - 17:03
“The veterinary checks were introduced to ensure that dogs with exaggerated features do not win prizes.
is this a bit subjective?
every breed of dog is "exaggerated" from the wolf isn't it?
what exactly "exaggeration" would be disqualifying?
is this a bit subjective?
every breed of dog is "exaggerated" from the wolf isn't it?
what exactly "exaggeration" would be disqualifying?
by Aqua on 09 March 2012 - 18:03
You'll have to contact Crufts for their specific parameters but noses so squished that the dogs have to gasp for each breath they take do come to mind.
by EuroShepherd on 09 March 2012 - 20:03
I've never owned a bulldog, peke or any kind of flat faced dog. But I have owned persians, and I can tell you that from my experience, over-exaggeration can be a terrible thing.
I've owned a lot of purebred cats; Siamese, Balinese, Russian Blue, Cornish Rex, Japanese Bobtail, Exotic Shorthair and Persian cats.
Only 2 cats I ever owned were CFA "Show" quality, both were persians whom I purchased after they had been shown, one was a CFA Grand Champion male and the other was a CFA champion pointed female. I had intended to start showing and raising persians when I bought them. They were such lovely cats when I went to see them, it wasn't til I actually owned them and living day-to-day with them that I realized what tragedies they were.
Both cats sneezed endlessly, sometimes they snorted, often they panted. They were unable to groom themselves. I love grooming pets, I love brushing, but their coats were nightmares. In order to get the famous super-fluffy long show coat their fur had been bred with so much undercoat that they matted DAILY, both had very oily coats that collected every imaginable speck of dust and dirt. I was bathing these two cats 2-3 times a month, spending hours blow-drying them so no moisture was trapped and causing more mats. Every day they needed brushed, and not just a little cursory brushing but totally full body brushings to stop new mats from forming. I couldn't let them around my dogs because if one of my dogs happened to lick them or drool on them (I had a neo mastiff at the time) then they would mat. I eventually gave up on the idea of showing them and just shaved their coats down. They were no longer beautiful fluffy cats.
The male was the more extreme of the two, perhaps thats why he earned his Grand Championship so quickly. His nose wasn't just flat, it was pushed in. He had horrible trouble trying to eat, it was so difficult for him to pick up food in his mouth. I had to shut him in the bathroom twice a day, half an hour to an hour at a time with soft mushy food easy to lick so that he could get nourishment without my other pets stealing his food. His face had to be cleaned daily with a warm washcloth to prevent infection in the creases.
I never did breed persians, I was so sick of what these poor cats lived with just for the glory of ribbons from a show. I had both of them fixed and adopted out to pet homes that were experienced persian homes.
I had owned a 3rd persian cat and an exotic shorthair cat, both were doll-faced and therefore not CFA show quality. The doll-face persian did not have an extreme fluffy undercoat. The doll face cats never had trouble with breathing, eating or grooming themselves.
I still love purebred cats, but I now believe the CFA cat shows to be a sick thing, it's not hard for me to imagine that the show bulldogs and show pekes are sick too.
I've owned a lot of purebred cats; Siamese, Balinese, Russian Blue, Cornish Rex, Japanese Bobtail, Exotic Shorthair and Persian cats.
Only 2 cats I ever owned were CFA "Show" quality, both were persians whom I purchased after they had been shown, one was a CFA Grand Champion male and the other was a CFA champion pointed female. I had intended to start showing and raising persians when I bought them. They were such lovely cats when I went to see them, it wasn't til I actually owned them and living day-to-day with them that I realized what tragedies they were.
Both cats sneezed endlessly, sometimes they snorted, often they panted. They were unable to groom themselves. I love grooming pets, I love brushing, but their coats were nightmares. In order to get the famous super-fluffy long show coat their fur had been bred with so much undercoat that they matted DAILY, both had very oily coats that collected every imaginable speck of dust and dirt. I was bathing these two cats 2-3 times a month, spending hours blow-drying them so no moisture was trapped and causing more mats. Every day they needed brushed, and not just a little cursory brushing but totally full body brushings to stop new mats from forming. I couldn't let them around my dogs because if one of my dogs happened to lick them or drool on them (I had a neo mastiff at the time) then they would mat. I eventually gave up on the idea of showing them and just shaved their coats down. They were no longer beautiful fluffy cats.
The male was the more extreme of the two, perhaps thats why he earned his Grand Championship so quickly. His nose wasn't just flat, it was pushed in. He had horrible trouble trying to eat, it was so difficult for him to pick up food in his mouth. I had to shut him in the bathroom twice a day, half an hour to an hour at a time with soft mushy food easy to lick so that he could get nourishment without my other pets stealing his food. His face had to be cleaned daily with a warm washcloth to prevent infection in the creases.
I never did breed persians, I was so sick of what these poor cats lived with just for the glory of ribbons from a show. I had both of them fixed and adopted out to pet homes that were experienced persian homes.
I had owned a 3rd persian cat and an exotic shorthair cat, both were doll-faced and therefore not CFA show quality. The doll-face persian did not have an extreme fluffy undercoat. The doll face cats never had trouble with breathing, eating or grooming themselves.
I still love purebred cats, but I now believe the CFA cat shows to be a sick thing, it's not hard for me to imagine that the show bulldogs and show pekes are sick too.
by Abby Normal on 10 March 2012 - 09:03
Euroshepherd
That was a really interesting post, because you were talking about cats, I find people less emotive about cats somehow, and can see things more objectively.
I too have never owned a flat faced breed but I am quite sure, without a doubt that the brachycephalic dog breeds suffer the self same problems you describe with your cats. I know from the PDE 3 years on programme that they cleaned out the folds on the bulldog which were sore and harbouring all manner of bacteria, and on opening the mouth of one of the flat faced breeds (pug I think) the back teeth were like something out of a horror film, because they were all there but with nowhere to go, they were just all scrunched in a group over the roof of the mouth. Eating must be a trial, and breathing too. And yet....breeders and fanciers alike cannot and will not see it. They talk of snuffling (read cannot breathe) as though it is a cute quirk. I do despair, I really do.
I think your description summed it up - tragedies.
That was a really interesting post, because you were talking about cats, I find people less emotive about cats somehow, and can see things more objectively.
I too have never owned a flat faced breed but I am quite sure, without a doubt that the brachycephalic dog breeds suffer the self same problems you describe with your cats. I know from the PDE 3 years on programme that they cleaned out the folds on the bulldog which were sore and harbouring all manner of bacteria, and on opening the mouth of one of the flat faced breeds (pug I think) the back teeth were like something out of a horror film, because they were all there but with nowhere to go, they were just all scrunched in a group over the roof of the mouth. Eating must be a trial, and breathing too. And yet....breeders and fanciers alike cannot and will not see it. They talk of snuffling (read cannot breathe) as though it is a cute quirk. I do despair, I really do.
I think your description summed it up - tragedies.
by Abby Normal on 10 March 2012 - 10:03
I got carried away and forgot the point of the post.
I think the Kennel Club have gone about this the wrong way. I don't know the actual 'problem' they have come up with for refusing the BOB for both these dogs, but I suspect it is minor in the overall scheme of the structure of the dogs.
IMO they should have taken a far bigger bolder stance 3 years ago when PDE shook everyhting up, and changed the breed standards dramatically, calling for a specific (decent) length of muzzle etc. If the breeders could not produce a dog with that length of muzzle (or feature) in that time (which they wouldn't for several generations) so be it, there would be no entries for a number of years). This should have happened with all the breeds that they put on their 'watch list'. The breed clubs and breeders could spend time improving their breed rather than concentrating on the show scene which is ruining the breeds. BUT, it would have left the door open for those people within breeds who have been producing dogs without exaggeration (and there are some) who haven't stood a chance with judges who have chosen to promote exaggeration.
As it is, I believe the KC is 'grandstanding' with individuals, making it seem like they are taking action, when in fact what they are doing will make no difference in terms of how breeders continue to breed. The same dogs and type of dogs will continue to be bred and shown next year.
I think the Kennel Club have gone about this the wrong way. I don't know the actual 'problem' they have come up with for refusing the BOB for both these dogs, but I suspect it is minor in the overall scheme of the structure of the dogs.
IMO they should have taken a far bigger bolder stance 3 years ago when PDE shook everyhting up, and changed the breed standards dramatically, calling for a specific (decent) length of muzzle etc. If the breeders could not produce a dog with that length of muzzle (or feature) in that time (which they wouldn't for several generations) so be it, there would be no entries for a number of years). This should have happened with all the breeds that they put on their 'watch list'. The breed clubs and breeders could spend time improving their breed rather than concentrating on the show scene which is ruining the breeds. BUT, it would have left the door open for those people within breeds who have been producing dogs without exaggeration (and there are some) who haven't stood a chance with judges who have chosen to promote exaggeration.
As it is, I believe the KC is 'grandstanding' with individuals, making it seem like they are taking action, when in fact what they are doing will make no difference in terms of how breeders continue to breed. The same dogs and type of dogs will continue to be bred and shown next year.
by pinkbitesleeve on 10 March 2012 - 15:03
This does not surprise me an ounce, really. I've had Pekes since I was 4, and we were always careful to steer clear of the ones with the pushed-in noses and legs bowed out so far that they have to swing their entire torsos to even take a step.
When viewed from the side, you can see my boy's muzzle out about an inch or so from his face. His eyes protrude less than those of my last Peke, which I'm thankful for because when she was a pup, she tried to chase a rabbit under a fence and snagged her eye on the link. That nightmare of a coat that the Peke seems to share with Euroshepherd's memory of their Persians is nonexistant on my dog: while he does have enough undercoat to nearly compete with my Shepherds, the topcoat more resembles that of a Retriever, falling flat and silky, and in ten years has never bothered itself to grow into that poofy 'dustmop' look you see today. He doesn't have the "Cheeto Curl" front legs, as I call them, shaped like boomerangs and seemingly incapable of any sort of locomotion. They're short and stubby but a little straighter.
He's a Pekingese almost by pedigree only. He's reminiscent of the dogs of the early 1900s and prior, and I'm thankful for it. Will my dog be Championing out or Granding out anytime soon? Even if he wasn't altered, hardly. But he won't be failing any health checks anytime soon. Going on 11 years old this year, he can still keep up with my GSDs and tear around the backyard seemingly endlessly during the winter months, has good eyes, a good heart, no issues to speak of, eats all his food, plays with his toys and meets his adoring fans. For some people who normally state that they 'don't like the way Pekingese look', he's one that they can make an exception for. It's sad to see such an ancient breed being driven into the ground for the sake of beauty. They've obviously been fine for all these centuries. The Pekingese never needed changing.
When viewed from the side, you can see my boy's muzzle out about an inch or so from his face. His eyes protrude less than those of my last Peke, which I'm thankful for because when she was a pup, she tried to chase a rabbit under a fence and snagged her eye on the link. That nightmare of a coat that the Peke seems to share with Euroshepherd's memory of their Persians is nonexistant on my dog: while he does have enough undercoat to nearly compete with my Shepherds, the topcoat more resembles that of a Retriever, falling flat and silky, and in ten years has never bothered itself to grow into that poofy 'dustmop' look you see today. He doesn't have the "Cheeto Curl" front legs, as I call them, shaped like boomerangs and seemingly incapable of any sort of locomotion. They're short and stubby but a little straighter.
He's a Pekingese almost by pedigree only. He's reminiscent of the dogs of the early 1900s and prior, and I'm thankful for it. Will my dog be Championing out or Granding out anytime soon? Even if he wasn't altered, hardly. But he won't be failing any health checks anytime soon. Going on 11 years old this year, he can still keep up with my GSDs and tear around the backyard seemingly endlessly during the winter months, has good eyes, a good heart, no issues to speak of, eats all his food, plays with his toys and meets his adoring fans. For some people who normally state that they 'don't like the way Pekingese look', he's one that they can make an exception for. It's sad to see such an ancient breed being driven into the ground for the sake of beauty. They've obviously been fine for all these centuries. The Pekingese never needed changing.
by VKGSDs on 10 March 2012 - 16:03
I cannot speak for the other breeds but as far as GSDs, I think the vet exam thing is a waste of time and energy. Who is dumb enough to enter a lame dog in a huge show and actually put the dog in the ring? Second, for anyone that does pull something like that, the judge can just excuse them (I've seen this happen at smaller shows, people cry panno or whatever but if the judge thinks there's a problem they have every right to excuse the dog).
Off the top of my head the big health issues with our breed are things like HD, mega-E, DM, severe allergies, major digestive issues... NONE of these things can be identified during a simple exam!
Cow hocks, steep croup, extreme rear, etc are not any kind of crippling disorder. The degree to which they are excepted is a matter of taste, which again can be evaluated as part of the conformation in the ring by the judge! People talk about wanting to preserve "health" but then bring up aspects of conformation that don't really change the HEALTH of the dog. I am not defending cow hocks, loose ligaments, steep croups, extreme rear angulation....but all of this is really a matter of personal taste and type, which is exactly what is evaluated by the JUDGE in the conformation ring, not by a vet. Even a loose, cow hocked dog with a 45 degree topline and rear that goes on forever can still be OFA excellent with normal elbows, DM and allergy free. So what are we really expecting these ringside evaluations to uncover?
Off the top of my head the big health issues with our breed are things like HD, mega-E, DM, severe allergies, major digestive issues... NONE of these things can be identified during a simple exam!
Cow hocks, steep croup, extreme rear, etc are not any kind of crippling disorder. The degree to which they are excepted is a matter of taste, which again can be evaluated as part of the conformation in the ring by the judge! People talk about wanting to preserve "health" but then bring up aspects of conformation that don't really change the HEALTH of the dog. I am not defending cow hocks, loose ligaments, steep croups, extreme rear angulation....but all of this is really a matter of personal taste and type, which is exactly what is evaluated by the JUDGE in the conformation ring, not by a vet. Even a loose, cow hocked dog with a 45 degree topline and rear that goes on forever can still be OFA excellent with normal elbows, DM and allergy free. So what are we really expecting these ringside evaluations to uncover?
by mariaartashes on 11 March 2012 - 06:03
On video Bulldog was gorgeous, with super breath - she run with closed jaws, very good dog, super movies.
I don't like a GSD, his movies are uncorrect, why vet nothing say about ligaments? Such sheepdog is unhealthy more, as Bulldog!
If all want see a healthy dogs (and I want this too) - GSD should look out another!
I don't like a GSD, his movies are uncorrect, why vet nothing say about ligaments? Such sheepdog is unhealthy more, as Bulldog!
If all want see a healthy dogs (and I want this too) - GSD should look out another!
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