This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Scarlet Akai on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
Hey everyone,
I like many of you watched the new Pedigree Dogs exposed documentary. Something that really stuck out to me as a fantastic idea was the inbreeding coefficient Database. (For those who haven't check out the link below type in a few letters and pick a random dog. I used raldene moonglow)
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbreed/Default.aspx?breed=5106
Since we are developing more and more as a global community every day; Wouldn't it be of great benefit to all breeds if the major Kennel clubs, SV etc (essentially all those that keep official lineage of dogs) get together and create one? Or at least create their own individually that could possibly interact with the others.
Granted I'm not a breeder, but I don't see a real downside to having this function available to anyone thinking of breeding dogs. And It's definitely something I'd like to know as a prospective puppy buyer.
I'm just curious as to what people think, or if they see a potential problem, especially if they see one that they feel will outweigh the benefits.
On a related and slightly whimsical note. I think Olli's Database would be an awesome venue for it seeing as he already has so much of the ground work here. But there is a lot of political nonsense to get through and cooperation issues that would have to be dealt with before thats even a remote possibility. And Olli I believe is always infinitely busy taking on such a project would be an ultimate nightmare.
by Ace952 on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
Is this available on working dog eu.com? Or is that something completely different?
by duke1965 on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
scarlet , let me give you a small newsflash INBREEDING IS NOT THE PROBLEM
selecting on, and breeding with dogs with these extreme issues is
if you outcros in lets say cavaliers but use two parents with skullproblems , and keep selecting pups with these typicall skull , you will keep the problem
for some reason several idiots keep on blaming a breeding system , when the breeding stock and selection of it is the problem
A good start would be that kennelclubs only give championshiptitles to those dogs that passed all health test , required for that breed , so a dog will need both healthtest and championshippoints to actually get the title and compete in the groupring
that way breeders and handlers will have a whole new interest in breeding and promoting healthy stock. the tophandlers who worry for their income will only promote healthy dogs , and the group and BIS winners would only be dogs with passing health scores
selecting on, and breeding with dogs with these extreme issues is
if you outcros in lets say cavaliers but use two parents with skullproblems , and keep selecting pups with these typicall skull , you will keep the problem
for some reason several idiots keep on blaming a breeding system , when the breeding stock and selection of it is the problem
A good start would be that kennelclubs only give championshiptitles to those dogs that passed all health test , required for that breed , so a dog will need both healthtest and championshippoints to actually get the title and compete in the groupring
that way breeders and handlers will have a whole new interest in breeding and promoting healthy stock. the tophandlers who worry for their income will only promote healthy dogs , and the group and BIS winners would only be dogs with passing health scores
by duke1965 on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
furthermore the paper inbreeding on a dog , and the actual genetic level of inbreeding on the same dog can differ for about 5000%
by Scarlet Akai on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
Duke,
I'll Agree with you that Inbreeding in itself is not the problem, and that it is beyond imparative to only choose from healthy genes to begin with. If everyone could stick with that every breed would indeed be in a lot better health.
However, I still think that there is intrinsic value in having as much genetic diversity in a breed as possible. More genetic diversity has always shown to be of benefit, whether it be adaptability to certain situations, resistance to new diseases etc etc.
I don't think that breeding 1-1 means that your dooming the offspring to a life of pain and suffering to every recessive problem out there. I can honestly see how linebreeding in somecases can be a useful tool in knowing/understanding the line of dogs that you work with, but even soo don't we still want as wide a variety of healthy genes as possible?
I'll Agree with you that Inbreeding in itself is not the problem, and that it is beyond imparative to only choose from healthy genes to begin with. If everyone could stick with that every breed would indeed be in a lot better health.
However, I still think that there is intrinsic value in having as much genetic diversity in a breed as possible. More genetic diversity has always shown to be of benefit, whether it be adaptability to certain situations, resistance to new diseases etc etc.
I don't think that breeding 1-1 means that your dooming the offspring to a life of pain and suffering to every recessive problem out there. I can honestly see how linebreeding in somecases can be a useful tool in knowing/understanding the line of dogs that you work with, but even soo don't we still want as wide a variety of healthy genes as possible?
by Scarlet Akai on 01 March 2012 - 21:03
The way the inbreeding coefficient works is not by calculating the absolute degree of repeated genes inbreeding, but by the chance of the same allele being given to an offspring.
In otherwords its not saying that breedng Father and daughter means your dog has 25 percent of redundant DNA. It's saying there is 1 in 4 chance of any specific allele being duplicated.
Essentially it's taking that concern into account.
In otherwords its not saying that breedng Father and daughter means your dog has 25 percent of redundant DNA. It's saying there is 1 in 4 chance of any specific allele being duplicated.
Essentially it's taking that concern into account.
by Scarlet Akai on 01 March 2012 - 22:03
To be clear:
Im not suggesting a mandate on the percentage of inbreeding that should or should not be allowed.....
I just think it would be a useful tool to help people make more knowledgable choices.
Im not suggesting a mandate on the percentage of inbreeding that should or should not be allowed.....
I just think it would be a useful tool to help people make more knowledgable choices.
by duke1965 on 02 March 2012 - 05:03
read what you write scarlet ,
I still think that there is intrinsic value in having as much genetic diversity in a breed as possible
this can only be achieved if you keep seperate lines available to make a true outcross
the only way to keep seperate lines pure and available is to line/inbreed in those lines
if we all outcross to the same dog/line , were would that put the breed as in genetic diversity for the next generation
I still think that there is intrinsic value in having as much genetic diversity in a breed as possible
this can only be achieved if you keep seperate lines available to make a true outcross
the only way to keep seperate lines pure and available is to line/inbreed in those lines
if we all outcross to the same dog/line , were would that put the breed as in genetic diversity for the next generation
by darylehret on 02 March 2012 - 13:03
I don't think that breeding 1-1 means that your dooming the offspring to a life of pain and suffering to every recessive problem out there.
Quite frankly, I'd be impressed if you could do a 1-1 linebreeding :-)
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top