straight backed, more to original line shepherd br - Page 1

Can anyone tell me if anyone is breeding shepherds that are more like the originally developed lines of dog in Germany with the straighter backs? I have been told they may be found by breeders in Germany, but have no specific info. Thanks!

You will find more straight back GS's in the working lines.

Try working line GSD, nearest to the original standard.

Why the roach back? What is the cause of it? or bred for it? And why not seen as much in working lines? I Have some answers but would like to get feedback from all of you out there re: this. uwe

Working lines rarely has this roach back look, have seen some but not as much as the showlines.

HI, This is something I found that seems more concise in explaining how the "roach back" was developed. http://showcase.netins.net/web/royalair/pasttopresent.htm. My only concern about strict working line dogs is that I have heard they do not have good temperments as a family dog. I currently own a Shutzchund I female, german import show line, that is great, and would like to get a companion shepherd for her with the straight back lines. Thanks everyone for your comments!

Working lines need more work and better handling, that's for sure. But there are lower drive ones that may be suitable for a less active home, all you need to do is research the lines and find a breeder willing to help you out.

In my view, it is true that many working lines have straighter (albeit flatter to the true horizontal also)backs than many currently popular show lines (W.German). However, many of these straight backed working dogs have way too much length of back and loin and poor angulations with poor, incorrect movement, with slightness & weakness of longbones, and lack of chest development thus limiting their overall agility, endurance and working value, plus they don't look pleasing to the eye. But there are exceptions to this rule and some working dogs are deservedly V-rated in Zuchtschau, short in back and loin, have great angles at both ends, great bone and depth and properly angled long croups and powerful, balanced movement. These dogs exist and are worth their weight in gold and are the true "cross-over" dogs. Many of these pay a price in lower ranking in both profung and zuchschau for their owners for training for trying to win in both worlds, which is unbelievably difficult. But there are some of these dogs in the USA now which have obtained this high rank in both worlds. The problem with most working lines is that many who breed and own working lines don't know what the FCI standard is regarding proportions and proper length and construction and do not breed to working lines known to produce correct dogs. They have focused almost totally on prey drive, trainability, etc. These folks just don't know they have a serious length and snipiness problem problem with their dogs, thinking this is acceptable and normal for the GSD. But again there are always exceptions, and I've seen some working line dogs that are absolutely stunning because of their structural correctness and good movement as well as their "fire in the eyes" correct Alpha type temperament. Some of the nicest of these have been very dark black sables, dark bi-colors and solid blacks. Yes there are more roach backs in the W.German show lines, but also many great dogs who can be bought or bred to that are correct. For example, Batu Kennels has functioned with a ban on roach backs for years and one can obtain some dogs with very nicely structured backs from them or can use some of their excellent stud dogs. There are a notable number of other smaller zuchtschau kennels too that do not produce and sell roach backs (in W.Germany and other countries too). A serious roach causes as many movement problems as a long stringy, straight back. Both are very unpleasant to view as well as are seriously incorrect structures in the GSD. Too bad so many are kennel blind to this as they are important issues for the future of the breed. But when a working line or a showline dog is correct in structure and mind, then it is a "TOTAL GERMAN SHEPHERD" and a real sight to behold. There are stud dogs like this out there and they need to used to advance the breed.

The apparent origin of the roach back was a compensatory over-reaction to the long saggy backs linked to Rolf Onsabrucker Land, a pillar in the breed. He produced some fantastic qualities buty als also produced some long weak saggy backs that severely limited the working value of the GSD. W.Gwerman breeders quickly over-reacted by overbreeding to breeding to stud dogs and lines that prodced ever increasing arch back, finding that even a long arch can allow a dog to deliver a long period of movement (work) without sagging. Overtime they became kennel blind to this until the esteemed Dr. Rummel placed and absolute ban on placing these dogs in the higher rankings in zuchtschau. When he left the SV Presidency, his successors began to progressuively allow these dogs back in to the higher rankings. Some say they did this for their own economic gains by promoting their own bloodlines which carried the roach backs heavily.

<<>> Preston that has got to be one of the best explainations I've had on this. Thank you. Truly understanding the History of the breed and understanding the reasons why things got the way they did (split). This is what every breeder needs to know in order to make an informed decision on their breedings and how that's going to effect the future of the German Shepherd Dog. Uwe