line breeding - Page 1

Just wanted to ask what everyones opinion is on line breeding?

It is a two fold answer..it can be good if done correctly and not to close (4/5) on a good dog, when you double up linebreeding too close you narrow the gene pool. This can be negative in the best of a pedigree. I think for the most part especially with health issues out-crosses produce well to elimate some risk you are taking. When you see the same dogs repeated in the dams/sire of a litter over and over look for problems...to me the gene pool especially in some german dogs have become too small for my liking. My stud dog is a out-cross and I think this attributes to his ability to produce well.

If one takes the term "linebreeding" and substitutes the word "inbreeding" then that forces one to see things in a different light. The common opinion is that linebreeding occurs in generations 4, 5, and beyond. For generations 1, 2, and 3 it is considered to be inbreeding. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck; then it must be a duck, right? Essentially, linebreeding is inbreeding. Following what Marlene said, the shrinking of the gene pool will emphasize negative genetic characteristics at least as much as it will emphasize good genetic characteristics. I personally am of the opinion that selective outcross breeding is best, especially these days because we are still recovering from the excessive inbreeding of twenty (20) and thirty (30) years ago. This especially applies to the West German showlines and the Ambred A.K.C. showlines. At least the S.V. addressed the issue some time ago and will allow an inbreeding that is no closer than 2-3. The A.K.C. still looks the other way unless it is considered an incest breeding. And of course they will still register this type of litter as they will any other litter. Just my opinions, Bob-O

I agree again with Bob linebreed vs in-breeding 4/5 is as close as I would even consider and not more than one common dogs on top and bottom sides. Linebreeding can be super or it can be disaster one really has to know a lot of the dogs they are line-breeding on in terms os weakness and strengths not just the socres of each dog more details in terms of nerves. hips. health, etc. Marlene

line breeding s easy to do everyone can go for a line breeding but for outcross u must have enough knowledge for the breed n lines n u should know wch line dominance wch thing,that's a difficult job n mostly u cannot get the expected results but wen u go wth that outcross to next generation then mostly u can get top results.

After the 3rd generation, genes are so diluted it can barely be called linebreeding. You will not get a fix on the type unless the dog appears many, many times in the 4th & 5th generation. Linebreeding is a valuable tool, just as outcrossing is. Tools are tools, not good or bad. It's how those tools are applied that determines whether the outcome is good or not.

yes u r right they're tools but for type u not depend on line breeding only its totally a breeder s ability hw he breed ,wen v see a kennel competition in germany they admire progeny from different different sires n dams but type s same that's called breeding.

I think everyone has valid points. But, is it possible to have the same effects of line breeding even if the dogs are not related? What makes line breeding what it is, is because the same genes are concentrated within a certain amount of generations. Is it also correct to say that it is possible to have the same effect with dogs that are not related but have the same genenotype? For example, if 4 dogs in a three generation pedigree are very similar in genenotype isn’t this a form of linebreeding? What do you think? I agree it is a tool and knowing how to it is of paramount importance.

Mike I tend to agree with you. My opinions of linebreeding are formed because of the limited genetic makeup of many dogs who are currently alive. While I am aware that generations seven (7) and eight (8) are far away and contain a lot of dogs, one will often see the same sire repeated more than twenty (20) times in a single generation; to the end that sire became an unofficial foundaton sire with all of his qualities, both good and bad. While this occurred many years ago, it continues to cause issues because it is nowadays very difficult to "breed away" from certain genetic troublemakers. It is in these cases that a carefully-selected outcross breeding should produce healthier progeny by attemptng to weaken the presence of bad genes. As you said, either linebreeding or outcross breeding should be seen and used as a tool. Bob-O

Sean, the only way to be very similar in genotype is to be very closely related. Perhaps you meant they were very close in phenotype? Subhani, perhaps you're speaking of Sieger shows and the different sires and dams? If so, then you must realize that all of those dogs are based on only a handful of dogs that are further back in the pedigree. Showlines are nearing a severe genetic bottleneck because of the overuse (my opinion, not fact) of a few dogs to promote the type desired by the SV in the show circles. Breeding is merely putting two dogs together to produce offspring, producing dogs of similar type MAY be considered good breeding...if the dogs are capable of doing what they're supposed to be able to do. Type is set by linebreeding/inbreeding, then using dogs from similar phenotypes to make sure you don't lose much in the next generation, then going back upon the lines that produce the type you're after...once firmly ingrained in your producing males/females, then you can go to dogs of other phenotypes and still maintain the type.