bad out , what is the reason - Page 1

when a dog has problems with out/aus , do you think its a strong dog or just tooooo much prey getting in his way

From my limited experience:
Nerves- just spirals too high and can't control itself
Handler Conflict
and last and most rarely, very strong dog. (never seen that)
---Mary

Duke,
Is this a SL dog or a working line dog?  I just want to make sure the post is in the right forum.

Another reason for not outing could be a  lack of confidence, the dog does not believe it can win against the helper if it lets go . But  handler conflict is way to prevalent. Hugh

I agree with Mary.  To me bad outing is nerve or confidence issues with the dog and/or training conflict (handler conflict or some sort of conflict in the training that shows itself with the out or lack thereof).  I have a dog that has never ever had an outing issue in protection and on Sunday he had a problem, didn't want to out after the escape and took two commands plus a stern correction.  Why?  Because we had been working through another problem with his guarding and that caused conflict that was reflected in the outing.  I was not happy to see it but was not surprised.  I don't get how/why a "strong dog" that was otherwise great would have outing issues just because the dog is so strong, at least in the context of SchH where the helper is "locking up" (a dog doing real bites on someone that isn't going to lock up is different).  If I see an outing issue with my own dogs I assume we've caused some conflict and need to make things clearer to the dog, bring balance back and make sure the dog is "winning".
 

Another reason for not outing could be a  lack of confidence, the dog does not believe it can win against the helper if it lets go . But  handler conflict is way to prevalent. Hugh
My dog is being this way right now.  I don't want to pick on anyone or dog without knowing the whole story so I'll be honest and use mine as an example.  He is conflicted in his guarding, he's out of balance right now (too high in defense plus not really understanding that his barking/guarding controls the helper).  Also he's gotten a lot of pressure from me in obedience lately so he's probably wondering if I have his back in protection or if he's just taking crap from both ends.  At least when he is on the sleeve he feels more control.  He's never had an issue with grip shifting and he likes to fight on the sleeve (ironically shows more confidence and courage during drives than anywhere else). I can see where this past weekend we were working on this guarding issue, probably caused some conflict and this was reflected in the out.  His problem is not avoiding the fight (he relishes fight) but in the guarding, suppose it makes sense he'd be reluctant to come off the sleeve and into guarding.  I think the important thing is we didn't obsess about the out problem.  We know where it came from and have to address THOSE issues, not just zero in on outing.  A few minutes later....voila! dog outs again.

I'll just say it depends on the dog and training. Even your obedience can mess with the out. How do3s your dog out a tug or ball when you have it in hand? I've seen people ask their dog to out the toy and the dog continues to fight. Sometimes what you do while getting the dog to out can really make things worse and it all depends on the dog. Know your dog. Understand the way he works. Sometimes medium to heavy corrections send the dog higher and what do you think you get? Weak nerves? Maybe, but I think we are always quick to put that label on a dog.

DONT AUS/OUT HM , give a different command, like platz,then correct for that thru the leash or e collar. Choke em off the bite, who really wants a dog to out cleanly if they are suppose to be biting? I fail to understand that ... maybe Im to stupid but if mydog needs to bitesomeone then by all means BITE THE HELL out of him and kill him if possible LOL. clean outs do score well in sport. Maybe we need a third section on the forums  show, sport, real world?

Ok, I'll play your game. Why would I platz my dog in the real world? I wouldn't put my dog in a vulnerable position if this is real. And if the dog won't out, why would it platz?

just remember:  practice does not make perfect.  practice makes permanent.  if the training is causing conflict within the dog, doing it over and over will only make the problems more deep seated.
pjp