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by Ruger1 on 23 September 2011 - 19:09
Should euthanasia or physician-assisted suicide be legal?
I realize this is a sensitive topic, but I am interested to hear the opinions of those that would care to share their thoughts.
I realize this is a sensitive topic, but I am interested to hear the opinions of those that would care to share their thoughts.
by Two Moons on 23 September 2011 - 20:09
Ruger1,
I assume your talking about humans.
Consider the question, include abortion, is it anyone else's business once you remove the morality inflicted upon us by others what you do with your own body, your own life?
I say no.
I do not intend to die in a manner I do not choose, or in a place I do not what to be.
We do it for animals, something I believe strongly in, why force people to live or die by someone else's idea of what is or is not acceptable.
It would be so much better than the alternatives we have today, and much more compassionate.
Moons.
I assume your talking about humans.
Consider the question, include abortion, is it anyone else's business once you remove the morality inflicted upon us by others what you do with your own body, your own life?
I say no.
I do not intend to die in a manner I do not choose, or in a place I do not what to be.
We do it for animals, something I believe strongly in, why force people to live or die by someone else's idea of what is or is not acceptable.
It would be so much better than the alternatives we have today, and much more compassionate.
Moons.
by Ruger1 on 24 September 2011 - 04:09
Moons...yes humans....
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic. It is a very thought provoking topic indeed. I personally do not put euthanasia in the same category as abortion and that topic would deserve a whole thread of it own..lol..
I am curious as to what you meant by this statement... " once you remove the morality inflicted upon us by others"...?
You said, " I do not intend to die in a manner I do not choose, or in a place I do not what to be."....Being a nurse whose patients are mostly very elderly or terminal I can sympathize with your statement and I can understand your feelings....
You said, " why force people to live or die by someone else's idea of what is or is not acceptable."...This is a thought provoking statement.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic. It is a very thought provoking topic indeed. I personally do not put euthanasia in the same category as abortion and that topic would deserve a whole thread of it own..lol..
I am curious as to what you meant by this statement... " once you remove the morality inflicted upon us by others"...?
You said, " I do not intend to die in a manner I do not choose, or in a place I do not what to be."....Being a nurse whose patients are mostly very elderly or terminal I can sympathize with your statement and I can understand your feelings....
You said, " why force people to live or die by someone else's idea of what is or is not acceptable."...This is a thought provoking statement.
by vonissk on 24 September 2011 - 05:09
I watched a show one night on PBS and it was about a man who was dying--older man--I forget what of but the bottom line is it was terminal. He and his wife were from here but they went to England where he stayed in a hospice type plac e waiting. It is legal in Switzerland for a person to help with suicides as long as 1) it is videotaped and 2) the person must be able to reach the straw and drink the stuff on his own. He can have help holding the glass but he must reach the straw. Anyway they contacted him they had a place for him and off he and his wife went tp Zurich. Before they arrived the gentleman that mixed the drugs and did the taping went to a building where they kept an apt. rented for this--he made the bed and set everything up. So they arrived and he laid down and everyone talked then he said he was ready. The guy mixed the meds--I believe it was sodium penathol (sp), got his music playing that he wanted and turned on the camera. He drank part of it then relaxed a bit and drank the rest. He died very peacefully with his wife and his music. The ambulance came, they looked at the papers and the tape and off he went.
I thought it was a great show and I am glad there is a place where people can go before they are in a vegetated state and being kept alive on a machine.
So does that tell you I am for it? I watched my grandmother die a slow painful death and it hurt me more than anything ever has. They should have pulled the plug long ago. Not that I wished her dead but she was a very proud woman and would not wanted to have died like that.
I thought it was a great show and I am glad there is a place where people can go before they are in a vegetated state and being kept alive on a machine.
So does that tell you I am for it? I watched my grandmother die a slow painful death and it hurt me more than anything ever has. They should have pulled the plug long ago. Not that I wished her dead but she was a very proud woman and would not wanted to have died like that.
by Two Moons on 24 September 2011 - 06:09
Ruger1,
abortion and physician assisted suicide are personal, private issues that should be no one else's business except the family and their physician, yet on moral grounds primarily both are fought tooth and nail by people who think they have a say in your family and your personal life and would not allow you the freedom to choose.
I have no problem with laws or regulations to keep people from being taken advantage of, or counseling, but to not allow these personal choices because of someone else's religious (moral) beliefs is wrong.
Or to protect the medical community, insurance companies, or the drug companies.
The individual and their families should not have to put up with outside do gooders telling them how to cope with these situations with laws making them criminals if they make these choices.
I have seen suffering, and if you work with terminally ill elderly patients so have you.
Many of them have the state of mind to make these decisions and would if they could, rather pass on with a little peace and dignity.
So, what is acceptable and who gets to decide when it comes to these kinds of very personal issues.
Not the state, and definitely not some holy roller or professional or company who has financial interests.
I think with a few laws and guidelines these things should be the choice of those involved and no one else.
My Grandfather back in the sixties died at home in his own bed surrounded by family and with the aid of his doctor was not in pain.
My mother in law in the eighties died alone, scared, and in some pain, in a nursing home, from lack of care and negligence with no choice.
I have spoken to my family about these things, life and death, that's the way it should be, we will make choices legal or not, with or without assistance.
I have my own beliefs.
Moons.
abortion and physician assisted suicide are personal, private issues that should be no one else's business except the family and their physician, yet on moral grounds primarily both are fought tooth and nail by people who think they have a say in your family and your personal life and would not allow you the freedom to choose.
I have no problem with laws or regulations to keep people from being taken advantage of, or counseling, but to not allow these personal choices because of someone else's religious (moral) beliefs is wrong.
Or to protect the medical community, insurance companies, or the drug companies.
The individual and their families should not have to put up with outside do gooders telling them how to cope with these situations with laws making them criminals if they make these choices.
I have seen suffering, and if you work with terminally ill elderly patients so have you.
Many of them have the state of mind to make these decisions and would if they could, rather pass on with a little peace and dignity.
So, what is acceptable and who gets to decide when it comes to these kinds of very personal issues.
Not the state, and definitely not some holy roller or professional or company who has financial interests.
I think with a few laws and guidelines these things should be the choice of those involved and no one else.
My Grandfather back in the sixties died at home in his own bed surrounded by family and with the aid of his doctor was not in pain.
My mother in law in the eighties died alone, scared, and in some pain, in a nursing home, from lack of care and negligence with no choice.
I have spoken to my family about these things, life and death, that's the way it should be, we will make choices legal or not, with or without assistance.
I have my own beliefs.
Moons.
by Red Sable on 24 September 2011 - 10:09
Abortion is a little different, because that involves another life,
I know a woman that died of old age, naturally, she just starved to death, and it seemed like it took forever. It was horrible to watch her suffer and dwindle down to nothing. I do not want to die like that. Life is hard, dieing (sp) is harder sometimes.
I do not know how I am going to die, I just pray it is quick and fairly painless. I think if I keep eating donuts, a heart attack will probably get me, and that sounds about the best way to go.
Now we have them keeping us alive, when if left alone we would be dead. I think some are afraid of it being misused.
Moons, they may say we are all terminal, (when it is only appendicitis) and snuff us out just to save resources.
I do not know the right answer.
I know a woman that died of old age, naturally, she just starved to death, and it seemed like it took forever. It was horrible to watch her suffer and dwindle down to nothing. I do not want to die like that. Life is hard, dieing (sp) is harder sometimes.
I do not know how I am going to die, I just pray it is quick and fairly painless. I think if I keep eating donuts, a heart attack will probably get me, and that sounds about the best way to go.
Now we have them keeping us alive, when if left alone we would be dead. I think some are afraid of it being misused.
Moons, they may say we are all terminal, (when it is only appendicitis) and snuff us out just to save resources.
I do not know the right answer.
by Ruger1 on 24 September 2011 - 17:09
Vonissk said, "I watched my grandmother die a slow painful death and it hurt me more than anything ever has."
I watched my very proud and strong grandfather brought to his knees by cancer. I will never forget watching him suffer and die. I knew him well enough to know that he would would have taken the straw if it had been available. He fought long and hard for my family's sake, but when the fight was obviously in vain I feel he would have chosen not to have his wife and children watch the cancer swallow him up as it did...
===================================
RS said, "Abortion is a little different, because that involves another life,"
I agree with you and because it does involve two individual living beings it causes a great deal of complication...
RS said, "they may say we are all terminal, (when it is only appendicitis) and snuff us out just to save resources."
Laws are always abused by some...After what I have seen folks die of I will take a good old heart attack any day of the week and twice on Sunday!!!
====================================================
Moons said, "primarily both are fought tooth and nail by people who think they have a say in your family and your personal life and would not allow you the freedom to choose." ....
That is too bad, but with the lack of a moral base and the break down of family it becomes difficult to trust the motives and judgments of some family decisions. Not all families are like yours Moons..Some people need protected from the very people who should be protecting them. And when outsiders step in to protect the helpless, things get sticky...
Moons said, "Many of them have the state of mind to make these decisions and would if they could, rather pass on with a little peace and dignity."
Yes, I agree, but who decides if they are in fact in the "right state of mind"...???
Moons said, "I have spoken to my family about these things, life and death, that's the way it should be, we will make choices legal or not, with or without assistance.
I have my own beliefs."....
Moons, you are fortunate to have that relationship with your family. Hopefully when the time is at hand they will follow through with your wishes....
by ShelleyR on 24 September 2011 - 18:09
Yes, with provisions intended to keep people from making impulse decisions without sufficient psych evaluation/counseling. Not to say it should be make into a long, drawn-out process while the subject suffers, I do think some evaluation measures should be part of that process.
by Two Moons on 24 September 2011 - 20:09
Ruger1,
you make my point very well with your arguments.
Who decides, who to trust, what if, or when things get sticky, that's life and it's complicated, that's why it's no one else's business.
And the way things are now, if you want a choice avoid the system and society at all costs.
People should not be put in this situation of avoidance.
You see by your very arguments you are saying someone must intervene on behalf of...
I disagree.
I am not your keeper, and you are not mine.
Far too many think they are someone else's keeper there to protect them from themselves.
As for abortion, it is a woman, her body and a father, this is where the religious beliefs become the greatest intrusion.
It is argued when does life begin, at birth or when the sperm penetrates the egg.
Society will argue both sides when it is not up to them to decide.
We each have our own set of moral values and it is not up to one to inflict his upon another, but this it what society does through politics and the passing of laws.
It boils down to who has more political control and that is where things go astray and choice is lost.
Why is it illegal to commit suicide, ever wonder why.
Once your dead what could they do to you, other than not pay out on an insurance policy, it's idiotic.
Humans have more genetic defects that any life form on the planet, this one's a no brainer, why?
All of this saving by those who have no say only bring more suffering to others, where is the logic?
All they can argue is it's Gods will, or it's a moral delema.
Who's God?
Right and wrong are never black or white but rather very complicated shades of grey. Some things are easy to define, others not.
If someone wants to die wouldn't it be better to do so with grace instead of suffering or your own invention.
Aren't some creatures better off not living a life of pain and suffering. we do it for all other creatures why do we think humans should be saved at all costs.
Who are we to decide, and who's beliefs should govern everyone.
I stand by my belief that these things are no one else's business, they can only make things more painful, more complicated, and remove you from your dignity, your sovereignty over your own life.
Moons.
you make my point very well with your arguments.
Who decides, who to trust, what if, or when things get sticky, that's life and it's complicated, that's why it's no one else's business.
And the way things are now, if you want a choice avoid the system and society at all costs.
People should not be put in this situation of avoidance.
You see by your very arguments you are saying someone must intervene on behalf of...
I disagree.
I am not your keeper, and you are not mine.
Far too many think they are someone else's keeper there to protect them from themselves.
As for abortion, it is a woman, her body and a father, this is where the religious beliefs become the greatest intrusion.
It is argued when does life begin, at birth or when the sperm penetrates the egg.
Society will argue both sides when it is not up to them to decide.
We each have our own set of moral values and it is not up to one to inflict his upon another, but this it what society does through politics and the passing of laws.
It boils down to who has more political control and that is where things go astray and choice is lost.
Why is it illegal to commit suicide, ever wonder why.
Once your dead what could they do to you, other than not pay out on an insurance policy, it's idiotic.
Humans have more genetic defects that any life form on the planet, this one's a no brainer, why?
All of this saving by those who have no say only bring more suffering to others, where is the logic?
All they can argue is it's Gods will, or it's a moral delema.
Who's God?
Right and wrong are never black or white but rather very complicated shades of grey. Some things are easy to define, others not.
If someone wants to die wouldn't it be better to do so with grace instead of suffering or your own invention.
Aren't some creatures better off not living a life of pain and suffering. we do it for all other creatures why do we think humans should be saved at all costs.
Who are we to decide, and who's beliefs should govern everyone.
I stand by my belief that these things are no one else's business, they can only make things more painful, more complicated, and remove you from your dignity, your sovereignty over your own life.
Moons.
by Ruger1 on 25 September 2011 - 04:09
Moons said, "I am not your keeper, and you are not mine."
Very nice!
I feel very strong about that as well...
I am not going to talk about abortion at this point. IMO they different all together except for the fact that both are highly controversial subjects and typically have similar arguments....
As far as turning this into a thread about religion, I have made my position clear in other threads as far as my religious beliefs are concerned. I will sum it up to say I am firmly convinced of what I believe and I do not look to others to approve or validate my faith or beliefs about God. I am different then most as I am not going to Bible thump on you. it will suffice to say that we probably don't see eye to eye on our beliefs about God, the Bible or Religion...But, we can still be friends...: ) .....
I think you have some interesting thoughts on the topic. I like what you said here...
I am still thinking on this comment....
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