American vs German GSD's - Page 1

Hi, What is you guyses take on this I have been readding a lot and am totaly confused. How can the American GSD be a Better specimin that the German. I find that the American GSD looks like a totaly lacking in substance dog what are you guyses opinion and onother question can these dogs actually do something like SCH etc?????

JFU, I will temper what I say so as not to offend anyone. As you are aware, the GSD was brought to America early in the 20th century. Because of polical divisions caused by the great war, the two (2) lines developed very differently for many years. During the mid to late 1950's German dogs began to arrive again in America, and one (1) very special dog was the V Troll von Richterbach. The Troll was very successful not only in Germany, but also in the A.K.C. where he achieved the title of Grand Victor. The Troll's generation represents the last group of German dogs that arrived in the U.S.A. that still represented the standards set forth by the S.V. The Troll produced a grandson, the Lance of Fran-Jo. The Lance also accomplished the titles of Grand Victor but in both the U.S.A. and Canada. In my opinion he was still an excellent example of the breed, and literally became the foundation sire for the American show-line since. The linebreeding of the Lance was so heavy that half-brothers were bred to half-sisters extensively to try and reproduce the Lance. Then the show-line conformation begins to be defined in the U.S.A. with the goal of producing an animal with a regal appearance. One with a high head set, long straight back and low rear that was absolutely smooth in motion with a "rolling" side gait. Temperamant-who cared. The GSD was already a legend as far as loyalty and bravery were concerned, so why try to maintain it?. Working ability-who cared. Again the dog was supported by legend. This type of GSD continued to be "refined" until we have the American show line as it exists today. I don't agree with the S.V.'s direction either. Under the leadership of the last twenty (20) years, we have watched the dog develop into an animal that does not conform to the examples set by previous ancestors. But at least the working performance and assessment of breed quality is still required if one wants to breed and maintain the S.V. standard. I think it is a good thing to examine the pictures of both the Troll and his grandson, the Lance, and then compare these to what we see today on both sides of the Atlantic. We know where we went wrong; but what are we going to do about it? Bob-O

I agree that both have deviated from the original SV standard but times have also changed and there is a lot of prejudic I do agree that the roach back is not the best but I also would have to say that the over angulation is not good either. The straight back is good but it is seen and looked over by many SV judges where as the roached back is looked ober by the AKC judges what can be done to this breed can we go back no but we can go forward why doesn' the SV and the AKC try and help develope the traights of both to become more up to standard the standard does or at least did say that the dog is supposed to have a sraight back how can a roached back then be admissible???

JFU, I agree 100%. We are both on the same page.

I am NOT saying that all American dogs can do this but This one can. I have a Lance of Fran-Jo lined daughter and in the day it was line bred four different times. The questions was asked ***** I find that the American GSD looks like a totaly lacking in substance dog what are you guyses opinion and onother question can these dogs actually do something like SCH etc?????****** Well I have not yet titled her in SchH but I am ready for my BH title and in Oct we will be going for our Prtection title though SDA. She does personal protection, very well , she does not have the hardest bite but will not back down even after being hit (riding crop, sticks and ect) She will bite a full barrel sleeve, hidden sleeve or will for real. As far as the substance goes she is stright back (could be more sloped in the crop) bone is not heavy, feet could be more compact, her ear set is great - no donkey ears, her eyes are almond - not round, she has a good chest up on her - not narrow, she is not hocked nor east to west. she has a full thick coat not slick not plush, mouth is 90% black - could use more pigment. She is a therapy dog, and loves kids, cats and other dogs. We are going for our TT in September. oh yeah she is OFA good at 5 years of age. She has over the top ball and prey drive no food drive and good defense. Again not all Americans are like her It has been said may times "Im surprised" You can see her pictures at ek-9s.com I wish they would come together on 1 standard for this bred

Very well said Bob-O. JFU I do not know where you are getting your information from but I would look for another source. There maybe "AM-bred" GSD's that can work but they are far and few between. Because there are a few examples that can be pointed to does not make it the rule. There are many german born and bred working GSD's in this country that are very good examples. There are also very good examples of working litters being bred in this county. There is one standard established by the SV. The current judges favor what is in fashion not what has been established. The AKC has ruined many breeds by fancing aesthetics over working ability. The AKC is notorious for establishing their own breed standards instead of adopting from the nation of origin. In the beginning there was one German Shepherd. Now there are three; Working GSD, SHowline GSD, AM-bred GSD. Kyle

I am totaly agreeing with you I stunbled on a web site that would make most German GSD fans cry and laught at the same time. If anyone wants the link PM me and I will send it. I seem to also see that the SV is also wronge though in its standard. The standard says spesifficaly for straight backs!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not the oldest person in dog breeding and not the most knowledable person but I am not really seening straight backed dogs . what happened??