Which back is correct? - Page 1

Since I have been coming to this site I have seen many different back styles. I am confused are they supposed to be draggin the ground? looking like a bridge arch? stright back? or what?

Working lines need a straight back,the straighter the better.Show line dogs are bred to have a slope,and American lines usually the curve results from the hock angle.

Any back which is long, or soft, arched upward at the center to excess, or carped (i.e. roached upward at the center like a banana) is a serious fault. This is true for any working line, any show line (American bloodlines from Lance or West German Show lines, past or current). West German show breeders do not try to produce roach backs, it just happens as a lesser of two evils and/or they don't know any better. Many of even the top breeders in West Germany really don't know any better and have become progressively kennel blind to this gross structural distortion. When this problem started appearing in frequency under his SV Presidency, the late, great Dr. Rummel, probably the greatest president of the SV in modern times, instituted a complete and total ban on any of these seriously roach backed dogs. He made it clear that they would be passed over and got the word out no dog with a serious roach will ever be put up in the zuchtschau. But, alas, the power of geld has gradually taken over in years since Dr. Rumel left office and the West German breeders and judges found it better to look the other way than create a self-induced financial loss for the hundreds of V rated or higher dogs with this serious problem. That is why it is a beautiful thing when one sees any GSD, working lines or showlines that has a proper and short coupled back with efficient and proper locomotion when gaiting. And there have always been quite a number of working dogs in Europe and West Germany that meet this standard very closely with no roach and have excellent, ideal temperaments, just like there are a significant number of zuchtschau dogs in West Germany that are like this too. Let's take two of the top West German breeders, Farbenspiel and Batu. Both have instituted no roach guidelines longterm to their breedings. Thus the overall value of their dogs in general is higher. A very slight arch can be acceptable if it does not cause the dog to roll up in the rump loose lead or off lead when gaiting. Under loose lead or off lead, a significant roach distorts the GSD's movement, causes the croup to be positioned even steeper causing the dog to kick-up, often causes the front to fall down and wastes a great deal of energy, and causes a hitch between the front and rear actions. It's too bad so few GSD breeders, judges and enthusiasts really understand this. Many judges lose sight of this fault because the dog is pulling hard on a tight lead during showing.

Excellent post, Preston. All of the facts are covered. Bob-O

*****Many of even the top breeders in West Germany really don't know any better and have become progressively kennel blind to this gross structural distortion**** How can one not see that? I am a novice in this world and I see it. Some look like they broke thier backs! Preston Thank you for the article is was very educational. I am not a fan of the slant back nor the over roach they both look very painful. Would that not lead to health/genetic problems down the road? You spoke of Lance I heard he was a breath of fresh air in his day was that true? I have seen pictures of him. Could you tell me what was wrong with him? Thanks EK

which of the top VA and V male dogs would you consider have straight up to standerd backs?? I mean straight well musceled backs that would be alsmot perfect????

Who is this question directed too?

Dear EkvonEarnhardt, Lance was a superb dog in temperament, confirmation and breeding value. He did not move quite as extreme as Hollamor's Judd (who was probably the best most correct moving, most beautiful GSD ever shown in America, but was a spook). Judd had darker black and better pigment and a slightly better head. Lance had what some call a "banana snoot", a somewhat long pointy muzzle (not really that noticeable). Lance had great movement, great angulations and produced excellent joints, temperament and confirmation. Never before or since has there ever been such a producer in the American GSD breed. He would have been well accepted in Germany as well as here. The problem is that over the years since the 1960's his bloodline progeny have been overly inbred (linebred) to produce long, stringy, overangulated dogs, with pushed-forward front assemblies, weak front hocks, long toes, thin pads and sickle hocks (long lower thighs and no flexing at the rear hock) that have extreme but incorrect sidegait. But this is not Lance's fault. He was a totally impressive dog and very correct in structure and temperament. I saw a number of litters by him out of weak minded bitches where the puppies had great temperament (apparently he was dominant for this). I also saw litters out of poorly constructed bitches where almost every puppy had beautiful structure. Lance himself really didn't produce many genetics problems and flaws. I can assure you that almost anyone who loves GSD's would be thrilled to own a dog like Lance of Franjo. I think there is a photo of him in a number American authored books on the GSD (I especially liked Wynthea Strickland's book which is probably still available).

I just want anyones opinion on which dogs now have the correct back and produce dogs withe the correct back layout.

Believe or not he is posted here on this site!!