Dog Agression - Page 1

Genetic, learned, or allowed? percentages (in one dog) of each??

I feel aggression is genetic; the theory of aggression describes it as a survival instinct... you can channel a dog's through adequate teaching. Nervy dogs that bite are not aggressive; they bite out of fear, not aggression. A dominant dog should naturally be more aggressive than a submissive or middle dog... it's a complicated topic... :) do you teach a man to be aggressive... it's mostly the personality of the individual, genetics... there goes my opinion kosta

Are we discussing dog vs. dog aggression, dog vs. human agression, or both? In my opinion both can be definitely genetic to some end and environmentally-acquired to some end. Kosta makes an important observation from that I form a question. Is the aggression a form of territorial dominance (something that all dogs have to varying degrees) or aggression because of fear? Unless the dog has been physically abused repeatedly by humans or other dogs, then fear-related aggression is definitely a sign of genetic bad nerves-an issue cannot be made better and one can be passed along. In my opinion, the genetic issues that cause extreme issues with dog behaviour/interaction with dogs/humans can be compared in a true parallel scheme to violent criminal behaviours/interactions among humans. The existence of a heriditary "criminal mind" can be scientifically proven for certain members of the human species. But, we also know that this type of behaviour can be acquired from the influence of certain environmental factors. However, we know that not everyone exposed to these factors becomes or continues to be a violent criminal. That's where theory flies through the window and keeps psychiatrists and criminologists in socks and underwear. I think one can compare our species 100% parallel to a certain end. The difference is causes by the fact that dogs have very limited reasoning ability and that they live in the present and can contemplate neither the future nor the consequences. Not a good answer to your question, LaPorte. While I can easily be wrong I don't think that it is possible to make a mathematically-correct statement. Bob-O (an engineer, not a psychiatrist)

I meant dog-dog. Just experiences here - if the sire or dam is dog aggressive, how often does that pass to the pups? Let's say it is genetic - could it just be weak nerves being passed on? With pups out of dog aggressive sire or dams, should extra care be taken to make sure this doesn't become a problem with the pups? Looking for some feedback from people who have possibly bred dog-aggressive dogs and have followed how the pups have turned out. Not looking for scientific answers...... just experiences.

I would definitely feel that dog aggression is partly genetic (look at pit bulls) and partly learned. A dog offers aggression (genetics) when it is scared or uncertain as a youngster and it works, thus enabling the dog to get stronger and stronger in aggression as it ages (learned). I'm not sure I would call it weak nerves at all. I've seen many puppies predisposed towards dog aggression coming out of dog aggressive parents. And with the trend of most sport people to keep their dogs totally separated from each other from 8 weeks on so that (gasp) they don't get corrected and thus kill their confidence on the bite field, of course this produces dog aggression. The undersocialized dogs have no idea how to speak dog language at all and thus offer only aggression as a behavior when meeting their own kind.

Dog agression is in my opinion genetic. I had a litter recently that the male was very loud he would bark at anything and everything he was mated to a female that is VERY dominat but not agressive she puts other dogs in their places but doesn't try and pick fights. The pups are both parents put together they are loud dominat dogs that know they are strong and know how to use their streangth. That is just what I was hoping for they are excellent working dogs and show incredible promisse for IOP and SCH. If you use the agression and breed corectly for the wright kind of agression it can be used for the perfect working dog. Shureness, selfconfident, that know when and where to use their power and a desire to please!! exactly what I fell the GSD temperment should be like

life is always 50% gentetic and 50% environemnt[experience]for the canine -- it is very very difficult to seperate nature vs. nurture -- you can have a very secure pup come into bad experiences ie aggressive / life threatening situations and that pup may be very insecure for a long time as a result -- vice a verse -- you can have a gentetically predisposed puppy toward aggression and with super rearing[experience] have it be able to cope and adjust to the world -- when dealing with canines --i always consider the genetics and the history/environment / experiences of the dog [ and owner] ---

Excellent, Changer. I liked most of what you say, but I will disagree on the term "weak nerves". The issue with what I know as "weak nerves" is often thought to be an inherited condition from some ancestor or possibly a type of birth defect, and possibly constitutes a type of mental retardation. To me that behaviour is NOT a true form of aggression, but rather an unprovoked fight-or-flee defense. This type of mental function usually produces a dog that lives in absolute fear 100% of the time, and one that we usually call a fear biter. Of course to some extent this behaviour can be acquired due to lack of socialization with people and/or other dogs. I had one (1) such pup from a litter a few years ago, and of course he is not with us today for that reason. While he arrived in the world with a fear-biter mentality, none of his siblings displayed this behaviour trait. From my limited experience with him I deduced that his case of "weak nerves" must have been a type of brain damage or underdevelopment since he was the only one affected. As you can see, I have fortunately very limited experience with "weak nerves" of my own, however we have all seen it in all types of dogs. To me, a truely aggressive dog is one who will go without fear to face a challenge and offer to engage until the challenge is removed. While I know we do not intend to anger the pit bull terrier crowd, I agree with you concerning a genetic predisposition of dog vs. dog aggression with certain pit bull terrier breedlines. That is a proven fact. In the end, we return to question of how much aggressive tendency is inherited compared to how much can be acquired. 50:50? Gee, I don't know. Bob-O Bob-O

Bob-O It of course does depend on your definition of "weak nerves". A dog who looks at the world through fear because of genetics will never be able to recover as fast as a dog with a more confident temperament. We can get into a whole discussion of fear vs confidence, genetics vs environment. There are many articles out there that say both. I'm not sure I would call fearfulness a brain defect (though it may have been in your litter) in most canines because look at the flight behavior of wolves. Throgh dog breeding and especially our guarding dogs, we have consistantly bred the most confident to the most confident. We have also bred "forward aggressiveness" which in a wolves world, coupled with most confident, would probably lead to being killed off as a puppy and not surviving to pass down the genes.

Cont: Therefore flight behavior and fearful behavior is very genetic in dogs. Dogs for the blind puppy studies, etc....