A friendly reminder for puppy buyers/stud shoppers - Page 1

So, you're a novice looking for a puppy, and you think "Hey, I'm supposed to check on the parent's hips, right?"

Yes, indeed you should, (among other things) and maybe you've done your homework on understanding ZWs and OFA ratings. Great.

Perhaps you're a breeder and you're looking for your next stud to use, and ZW/OFA ratings are important to you and part of your selection process. Super.

But here's the rub, folks. Just because the breeder posts a ZW/OFA rating on their website does not make it so, and you may want to double check them. Here are some useful links for you to do so:


http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=688

The SV website can be a bit tricky and I can't always relaibly search by kennel or even #, but putting in the dog's first name works every time.

http://www.offa.org/

Excellent post!! I always tell people that call me that no matter who they buy a puppy from, I'm okay if it's not from me, but to be sure to ask to see the physical paperwork proving the certifications and I offer to explain what they need to look for and have examples on my website for them to see, because breeders out there know that the average joe has no clue what an a-stamp looks like and therefore they are not likely to ask to see the paperwork for fear of looking stupid because they don't know what they are looking for.

Great post though and I encourage other breeders out there to offer to help educate those that call them, because regardless of whether or not they buy a dog from you, they are going to buy a dog and the right thing to do is to try and help them avoid any potential heartache as much as possible by doing what we can to help them out. This can be done without bashing other breeders by name, just tell them how to look for what they need to look for and hope that they are able to figure the rest out on their own. I do wish that the SV website posted the ratings though and not just the ZW scores, that would be helpful too, and you know they have it all in the computer. Just because a dog has a low ZW doesn't mean it doesn't have a pair of NZ hips to go with his nice low score

Last year we had a client who bought a GSD from someone in Florida. They brought the paperwork along on their initial visit and I asked to look at it since I love reading pedigrees. As I went through the very nice little binder something didn't look right. Then I realized that one of the OFA certifications looked strange so I pulled the dogs name up in their database. Sure enough, the dog wasn't in there, the breeder had made a fake one on her computer or something then photocopied it to put in the binder. I'm not sure what the people ever did about it since they were transferred out of state just a month or so later. Oh, and the binder also had all these printouts on dogs in the pedigree from here. But they were all dogs from 6-7 generations back but nothing from the first 5 generations, none of which had a title to their name. The breeder had sold the pups as "Champion Schutzhund bloodlines". I told the owners that next time they are looking at getting a pup their motto should be "what have you done for me lately" meaning that the further back generations are relevant, but what parents and grandparents have or don't have should top their list. Any breeder can find titles in the pedigree if they keep going back. So sad that people would go to those lengths to deceive puppy buyers for a buck.

Annette

This is a valuable tool.  I was considering a particular stud a few years back who had a ZW on the owner's web site of 69 and when I went to the SV site the actual ZW was something like 84.   84 isn't a bad number but it said volumes about the integrity of the owner.

I don't think every instance of an incorrect ZW is someone trying to lie.  ZW change 4 times a year and some people get behind updating their sites.  I know I have to remind myself to check the ZW scores and update them.  In fact I will do so right now.  It's really the responsibility of the buyer TO do this type of research.  If the breeder insists the scores are different than what they are, then that's a problem but I wouldn't write someone off completely b/c of what's on their site without actually talking to them.  JMHO

I've used the SV site to check the ZW numbers before, but I have yet to find a way to check online whether the dog's "a" rating is correct--is that available?

I was considering a particular stud a few years back who had a ZW on the owner's web site of 69 and when I went to the SV site the actual ZW was something like 84.   84 isn't a bad number but it said volumes about the integrity of the owner.
 

As VKGSDs said, these numbers do change--a lot more frequently than most websites!

Christine

I can see a point or two, isn't 15 points a big leap? I thought 10 on a bitch was surprising, too.


Here's a question- what does it mean when a breeder claims a ZW or OFA rating the dog dog does not exist in the database?

That's the point.  A few points here or there is normal but 15 is a huge leap and not normal.

I just checked mine and both my dogs' changed (neither is a-stamped yet so I average the parents).  I agree, more than a few points is a large leap.

If the dog does not exist in the database....then I would think the breeder is lying or needs to contact the SV or OFA to correct the mistake.  My dog existed in the OFA database before I even got his certificates.

Very good 'Reminder'...I would also add the so simple yet often forgotten: DNA gepruft (proven) stamp!!!