The Making of a Universal Sieger - Page 1

Such an important topic. So little information.

I'm hoping some will share their experiences as to just what it takes to compete for the title.

The Universal quest is a personal journey. There's no payback for what you have to invest. Those that seek the title do so for the personal satisfaction and accomplishment. I'll share some of my thoughts on the subject.

What's the process? What are you up against? What does it take to get there from here. How do you get a prospect, raise it to do both, train it to do both, and succeed?

The Universal dog.......who wouldn't want a dog that represents the best of both worlds. A dog that stood proudly on the field at the top of the results in both work and conformation. A dog that can place as well in a show as it can on the field. I think there are many, many people that would agree the Universal dog is really what the German Shepherd dog is and should be.

The dog:

It takes a good dog. Don't waste your time on one that can't hold up to the job it has to accomplish. Start with a good prospect. I had what I felt was a Universal competitor. He was a show dog. He was raised in a working environment until he was about 13 months old. That's when I got him. From that point forward he was set to a show career. He did well at the shows. He got the quick show title. I mean quick at my instruction. He had a deadline to meet. Pressure in training? You bet. He was asked to do more quicker than he needed. I'm just lucky the dog was strong enough to make it through the training without breaking down. It was my decision. I wanted to make sure he had the ability to do it, and he had a show to go to a day or so after his second birthday. He made the deadline, but it was at the expense of continuing the solid foundation he had been given from the beginning. It was as if he went through high school with A's on his report card and then sent to graduate school to finish off his degree. Unfortunately this is necessary as the dogs simply do not live long enough to do what they have to accomplish in their show career. If a show dog isn't in a position to begin breeding at 2 years old, he runs out of time. It's just the way it is. Should it be different? Absolutely! Until there's a change. It is what it is.

The handler:

Me? Sorry dude. If you've ever seen me in person,,,,walking or anything that involves coordination is not a strength. White guy that can't dance syndrome, that's me to a T. I simply do not possess the talent to communicate effectively with my dog. Walk and count steps and then know what to do when you're finished counting. See,,not me. There's too much to loose with me as a handler. You have to be a good handler too to be competitive in the Universal competition.

Very interesting Randy. I am following this thread. This is something that I have dreamed of. I havewhat I believe to be a future contender, and this is my goal. Theresa

Can someone explain how the dogs are judged/scored and ultimately placed? 

Continued from above:

The decision:

By the time I decided the dog was worthy of the effort. I had to decide what it would take. If it could be done. What I was up against. What the end result and benefit could be.

I was OK. My dog was getting more breedings than I had expected. His breeding/show career was fine. What was to gain from the Universal attempt? I asked the advice of many that were more experienced as to the value of the Universal title. The response was mixed. The answer was somewhere between no one would breed to him because of the title, and it really didn't matter. I decide it would be a personal quest as there apparently was no real payback for the effort. It was to be a challenge to achieve. I was OK with that. Why do people climb mountains? Why do people go to the moon? Not everything has to make sense for me to do it. It was to be a journey for me and my dog.

At the time USA was the only organization offering the Universal competition. The WDA had dropped the program a few years earlier. First step was to declare, it was a requirement, then sieger show, 270 in a trial, and the Nationals.

Sieger show went well. Tagged a VA spot which rated an additional 5 points. The same points that had to be given up to a US bred dog. We were moving forward, off to a good start.

The team:

The German Shepherd is a team sport. If you haven't realized this by now, better accept it and press forward. I had to find someone that could handle him and had the resources to prepare him. This is really an obstacle. Those that are qualified handlers are generally busy with their own dogs and there are not many of them to begin with. They had to be relatively close to access for breeding, and that had to have the resources to train which means a helper that has taken a dog to the Nationals.

The first obstacle to overcome was what I did to the dog. The quick title and no training other than the occasional day at training to keep him tuned up is an obstacle. This is not the way to start off a Universal pursuit. These dogs need to be trained like working dogs on a program with experienced people from the time they are puppies. Too much is shortcutted in the quick title to have a solid foundation to continue with. You have to go back and fill in the gaps. This is almost impossible to do, even with a good dog. Even if it can be done, it takes time, maybe too much time.

So we put together the best plan we could with what we had and set some milestones that had to be met. There was a cost issue, a time issue, a progress issue, a performance issue. It all had to be managed and it all had to fall into place to make the next step.


The attempt:

Canada has a Universal program similar to the USA program. The first milestone was to go to Canada and pass Schh3 there. This would mark our progress and set ourselves up for a run at the Canadian and US title. The dog was doing well in training, some rough edges as expected. We were able to get some outside help. For those considering the Universal attempt. There will be lots of outside help. Plan on training with multiple helpers, multiple fields, multiple multiples.

Last trial of the season in Canada, middle of a hot summer, tough judge. Not the best set of circumstances. We were not quite where we wanted to be. The schedule said we had to be there. We were.

There were others there for the Universal qualification. Conditions were challenging. Tracking in a dry alfalfa field, heat, multiple club helpers at different experience levels. It was one of those trials where no one passed. We didn't either. Our quest for the Universal ended there. Too much to do too late in the game.

"Can someone explain how the dogs are judged/scored and ultimately placed?"


Equal parts Shutzhund 3 trial and conformation show.  The only different part would be the trial scoring as this is an elite level competition, the scoring is very critical.

The finishing position for trial is added to position in show and lowest score wins.

For example, 1st place in trial and first place is show would be 1+1=2 which is the highest achievable score.   5th plac

"Can someone explain how the dogs are judged/scored and ultimately placed?"

Equal parts Shutzhund 3 trial and conformation show.  The only different part would be the trial scoring as this is an elite level competition, the scoring is very critical.

The finishing position for trial is added to position in show and lowest score wins.

For example, 1st place in trial and first place is show would be 1+1=2 which is the highest achievable score. 

The scoring is weighted towards the dog that would score best in both areas.... trial and show.

Example a high scoring working line with a 298 V score but only a SG level rating in show would place too far back to do well.

By contrast a high conformation V rating dog capable of High G to SG scores ( 260- 285 ) at the trial will have a very good chance at the podium.

Indeed that is what happened in the breakdown of scores between the 1st and the 2nd places this year.

I want to add to Mystere's comments - the dog that placed 2nd in the WUSV competition was 12th in the show, and the dog that was 3rd was 9th. There were 39 males entered, so these were not poor placings. It is unclear that more training would lead to a better placement for these dogs - anatomy is something that cannot be changed by training. I was there and saw good performances in the ring from the majority of the working dogs. Additionally, the trial placings for the top 3 dogs were: 10th, 3rd, and 7th. Thus, those standing on the podium really had to perform in both the ring and the trial. Indeed, the trial winner placed at the end of the group in the show and so was 11th overall. Bottom line - you have to have a dog that can both work and compete effectively in the show ring to win this competition.

Quote: "It is unclear that more training would lead to a better placement for these dogs - anatomy is something that cannot be changed by training."



Absolutely true.  However, dogs with little or no ring training simply cannot be shown to their best advantage, regardless of the structure--the judge just doesn't get to see them stacked properly (including stacked to disguise), the dogs won't pull out (having been trained from 8 weeks on to heel), and the handler doesn't have a clue about showing the dog with something at least vaguely resembling the proper gait.   Working folks will put their own dog in a show and handle it, not realizing that the dog is pacing, much less what to do about it, for example.   None of that helps a dog's placing, even if  the structure is good.