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by Brittany on 12 June 2011 - 03:06
Taken off of http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002220/
Kyphosis is a curving of the spine that causes a bowing or rounding of the back, which leads to a hunchback or slouching posture.
Now for the dogs..
A dog born in the 1940's
VA1 Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land
If you notice the back is rather flat looking. Nothing abnormal is present.
2010 BSZS VA 1 sieger born 2005
VA Ober von Bad-Boll
Although I seen worst... This dogs withers is straight but onces it reaches to the back it begins to to have a bow shape. The loin then makes a sharp turn down to the tail.
I love to see an Spinal Xray from one of these current VA dogs to a dog with straight backs and compair them both.
Since we already have problem with Hips/elbows in our breed are we also going to be seeing spinal problems like Kyphosis?
by Duderino on 12 June 2011 - 03:06
by hexe on 12 June 2011 - 04:06
by Brittany on 12 June 2011 - 05:06
I am pointing out that their's a skeletonal of the spine that is changing not for the better but for possible worst. I would love to hear the opinion from a canine orthopedic surgeon regarding to this.
Look at the wolf for instance.
Notice that the spine is flat? Same as Rolf.
by Abby Normal on 12 June 2011 - 10:06
There is no doubt that skeletal changes have ocurred. You cannot have the curvature in the spine that is seen in today's SL dogs without it.
In Germany it is becoming routine to have spinal x rays taken before breeding, that tells us something does it not? The SV I believe also commissioned a spinal study, though the results were either inconclusive or not fully published. I think Silbersee has information, but it is in German and my German language skills are very limited. It is something of a concern in Germany.
I think it would be extremely interesting to compare an x ray of modern SL versus older dogs with obviously straight backs, or even compare an x ray of Sl versus WL (as the working line have a straight back). Especially since it is often argued that there is no 'roach' or 'curve' in the spine, and it is just the way the dogs are stacked.
Even without comparison I would like to see an x-ray of the entire spine of a modern day SL GSD.
This is a subject though that will often prompt a very heated argument LOL.
by Mystere on 12 June 2011 - 13:06
by ALPHAPUP on 12 June 2011 - 15:06
by pod on 12 June 2011 - 17:06
The standards are far from exact in their dictation of form. No standard could be so precise as to define a structure so narrow as to fit a particular type as seen in the showring. If that were the case then we wouldn't have such diverse forms as the Alsatian and the German type in the UK rings, and both complying with the same standard, as far as their respective supporters are concerned.
The form of the wolf is dictated by his role in the ecosystem. He needs a structure suited to endurance trotting, speed and manouverability. Not that different from the founder dogs of the GSD breed, so no surprise that these dogs were very similar to wolf structure. The modern day GSD is very different as he has mostly developed a form suited to little more than looking impressive in the showring.
by Brittany on 12 June 2011 - 17:06
Abby Normal, I wasn't aware that it's becoming a routine to have spinal x rays on these dogs prior to breeding. I wonder why? I guess I've been out of the dog world long enough to miss this information. I am curious about the spinal study, and to hear the results. I do hope that the study came from an unbiased source. To my understanding some well known kennels in Germany are conformation judges, and is responsible for rewarding these dogs with high V and VA's thus politics can interrupt the study from going public.
The next time I go to my dog's orthopedic specialist, who is also a surgeon, I will have to ask him about it and see what he has to say about it. I think it's safe to say that he is closest as one can get to getting an unbiased answer since he doesn't breed nor show dogs.
Yes this can be turned into a heated argument because theirs a lot of pointing the finger among the working/show folks. Unfortunately both are equally responsible for this as I've seen some working dogs with bad roach backs.
Mystere, Hello there and thank you for the WB :) I took some time off from the dog world for a while to focus on my RL. I'm slowly getting back into the game :) I hope things are going well for you :)
ALPHAPUP, Why isn't it fair to compare a wolf to a German shepherd? I did it simply because they're the closest ancestors, and have almost an identical standards. Sure why not compare a wolf to a terrier. Look at this:
A Carin terrier. Notice the back construction? It isn't a mountain shaped as the german shepherds that we have today running around the ring.
And sure each breed has their standards and structural requirements but that doesn't necessary mean that it's for the good. Look at the Bull terrier for instance. http://www.hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/
Or how about the poor pug who has to suffer from respiratory problems (or often times the eye pops out of it's socket) because the standards requires that the nose be as flat as it can.
In fact checkout this short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIaM3hYFszc
Mother nature knows best. Instead of creating our own stanards, lets see what mother nature thinks about it first. The wolves should be a perfect example of good standards
by apoArmani on 12 June 2011 - 18:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0ihN3_LVvY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivZjY-N8Rs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/13/YKnZRkOHtFc
http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/4/KNSTucYSI2U
http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/5/WCw_-BiZg_Q
http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/11/3_i6GWD7tDk
As long as you build on Natures 'gifts' and not destroy them...the benefits are there!!! Just have to work HARD AT IT!!
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