MWD special on Animal Planet - Page 1

I would just like to hear your impressions if you saw the Military Working Dogs special last night on AP. I thought some of the dogs were nice but others looked kind of weak for MWD's. The thing that most stood out to me was some poor bites/grips on the sleeve. They also didn't put any pressure on the dog when they were on the sleeve and it was all prey, no defense. My feelings are that some of those weak dogs would come right off with a little pressure. Granted, I'm sure we are only seeing a portion all the work being done, but I've seen better training and dogs in SchH, especially with regard to bite development. I would think MWD's would be held to a higher standard. Sorry If I offend anyone, just curious to hear what others think. btw: anyone know why that one GSD's tail was docked?? Regards, Melanie

GSDfan, I did not see the Special last night, but the program you talk about is pretty good. MWD has many dogs, I think you only saw a few. Yes, some have better grips than others, depending on what stage of training they are in. The Newsies only get to see what the GOV wants them to see.

Melanie, that wasn't a GSD, they don't come in brindle, it was probably a dutch shep. and I have no idea why it's tail was docked ;) I didn't catch the begining of the show, but the bitework that I saw was for the dogs that didn't make it through the program, seeing if they could be adopted out as pets, so I would expect weak bite work.

Is this canine bookcamp were talking about here?

I missed it as well I would have loved to have seen it. Most of the dogs going in to the program are weeded out from Schutzhund for one fault or another and comapred to the dogs you see and have, yes you are right weaker. A poor or munchy bite can be a reason they are there or too much aggression for the sport many kennels in Europe sell to our military the dogs that they have rejected but still can do the work maybe in detection or sentry and be fine for that purpose. Someone told me AKC is starting to have Schutzhund events starting next year Jan/07 and may change the policy to list titles have no idea if this is true or not.

I was in the USAF as a security policeman (now "Security Forces") and trained at Lackland AFB where the DoD dog school is. I WAS NOT a MWD handler but always wanted to be one. They randomly pulled recruits from the Police Academy when needed – and none were required when I was going through. If you didn't get pulled right from tech school if was damn near impossible to get sent from a duty location. I'm guessing that there was some sort of "charge back" to the unit if you sent someone from the field - but not if you imported in one of the green troops from Lackland. I was a "wanna-be" and did bit-suit/decoy work with the K9 unit at my base. The training consisted on ONLY "here's how to put the suit on – now run around out there and get bit." The stuff I saw out of the dogs I now know was abysmal. Some had such weak nerves you could never be sure they'd bit anything (unless a random unwanted fear bit) and others were so aggressive they could not be trusted outside the kennel without a muzzle. Most of the dog handlers we very young and frankly not well trained from what I saw. This was born out from what I saw on the TV show - there was an overlay of military drill training for teaching commands - but nothing about the psychology of dogs drives, mentally working them or using any other form than HEAVY compulsion to get results. I know that In the field the handlers who could give the most severe corrections were considered the best handlers regardless of the real ability or understanding of when or if such a correction was even required. I se much the same in the civilian police K9 handlers - most of them shock me they are so ignorant of real training techniques and tend to think the "alpha-roll" and "helicopter-hang" is to be used for just about any form of non-compliance. The funny thing is that most K9 handlers seem to look down on most sport (Schutzhund) handlers - but on whole I've seen there are many more decent sport handlers than K9... To back this up I recently saw another Animal planet K9 special, the "World Police Dog Championships." These dogs would have been laughed off any Schutzhund 1 field they walked on. Tracking was black magic voodoo which was actually boiled down to find 2 articles in a 3 meter by 3 meter square in like 10 minutes. Failure rate was pretty high - even for single discipline "detector" dogs. Bit work was laughable - weak bites, poor outs, re-bites and worst of all (in the he K9 world) not calling off an escape bite. Some of the (funny) exercises were "agility" which was pretty under-whelming “obstacle” course and a "detect the bad guy hidden in a box" test which basically consisted of the dog having like ten minutes to decide which plywood box a "bad guy" was hidden in. For most the indication looked like blind guessing - and sure didn't seem predicated on a scenting ability. I've known some REALLY good K9 handlers, some really good MWD handlers and some really good Schutzhund handlers. I've also know some really bad of each breed. On whole the the MWD/K9s seem to have the bigger majority of really bad ones while also having the much bigger egos and elitist attitudes. It's really kinda funny how much the guys pride themselves on old-school, Koehler type techniques - but really understand very little about drives, motivation vs. compulsion, assertive leadership/dominance etc. and just tend to think the snapping the dogs neck or choking it out will solve every training issue - often before the animal even really understands what is expect of it. -Calvin

Sorry I've misspelled "bookcamp" I meant K9 boo(t)camp sorry for the confusion.

If, it was the same episode from a few months ago. The dog had an injury to the tail and had it amputated.

If one examines the statement of work required for the Department of Defense then one will see that the DOD typically purchases dogs for two (2) distinctly different types of military work. The dogs go through initial testing at the time of purchase and are then inducted into the training programme at Lackland. At that end a determination is made as to which dog is fit for which type of duty, or no duty. And several do wash out when stressed. In years past the DOD would usually not release these dogs. They also would not allow adoption of a successful dog who reached the point of retirement unless the person adopting the dog was certified as a K9 handler since many of these dogs have a very strong civil drive. That has changed, however, and the general public is now open to adoption if they pass muster with the agency. I don't agree 100% with this practice, but the burden is placed 100% on the shoulders of the person adopting the dog. I did not watch this episode, but did watch a similar one some time ago. I am very sure that most of the training exercises will never be shown to the public lest there be a serious outcry from the Humane Society or P.E.T.A. It is bad enough that these groups pick on Schutzhund training. Bob-O

cledford -- that is a very nice post -- and for what i know and could ascertain -- true --- the techniques are something and yes many of the trainers really lack in depth canine psychology - they can train -- but how do you define train?? --as they tend to train the dog -- "this is the way we train to b bite " -- which as we know all dogs are differnet -- they from what i have seen often fail to IN-SEE into the dog --- also you are correct the handlers are being trained quite often as much as the canine -- i can see lack of experience in some ,.. not all but enough -- and most of us realize -- poor bites and weak bite can originate from genetics but also past experiences within the dogs growth and development can also have played a role -