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by n2health on 16 March 2011 - 05:03
Hi, I have started making contact about purchasing a dog with a few breeders outside of the US who I learned about while on PDS.. I have been ripped off by many people in the US, where I am from and live, so looking international now.
I am hoping to get some suggestions, when working with prospecting breeders. So far I have made contact with one in Serbia and in Germany... but not sure.
What do I ask? I've asked about the dogs health, but only received info back on costs and where to send money.. Would you ask the person one more time and if they ignore the question than run... or would you start running now? I know there are language barriers when going international, but there must be some resources available to lower my chances of getting burned again.
What type of questions would you ask, look for in a breeder, etc., Im familiar with getting referrals but what if they don't speak english, the only language i know. How can I prove any health certificate; hips, elbows, eyes, etc... are really the dogs... is there even a way to prove this.... Then what do i need to know about registering with the AKC. I went to the AKC ws and acknowledge i need three generation pedigree, but do I get all the signed documents upon receiving the dog, before, after.... yikes!!!!
I need some solid advice.
thanks, Lenee
I am hoping to get some suggestions, when working with prospecting breeders. So far I have made contact with one in Serbia and in Germany... but not sure.
What do I ask? I've asked about the dogs health, but only received info back on costs and where to send money.. Would you ask the person one more time and if they ignore the question than run... or would you start running now? I know there are language barriers when going international, but there must be some resources available to lower my chances of getting burned again.
What type of questions would you ask, look for in a breeder, etc., Im familiar with getting referrals but what if they don't speak english, the only language i know. How can I prove any health certificate; hips, elbows, eyes, etc... are really the dogs... is there even a way to prove this.... Then what do i need to know about registering with the AKC. I went to the AKC ws and acknowledge i need three generation pedigree, but do I get all the signed documents upon receiving the dog, before, after.... yikes!!!!
I need some solid advice.
thanks, Lenee
by GilaRiverSun on 16 March 2011 - 06:03
1) Go with a broker. They can cost more but will give you peace of mind, since you are doing business here in the USA. I can recommend a couple if you email me privately.
2) Develop a bit of a rapport. Here is your dilemma.
a) A big breeder in Europe often gets a huge ego. Just try to talk to top line kennels of either show or working lines - you will find out this very fast. IF they even bother to reply to your email - they will talk to you like they are doing you a huge favor to acknowledge your existence. The reasons? First they sell to other breeders 99% of the time. They are not in the market to sell to individuals. They really dont want to be bothered with you. And econd - the last - the very last - thing they want to do is to export their best pups to another continent. Their reputation depends on them winning - in EUROPE. Unless you have an in with these folks - honestly - look elsewhere. A broker can help with this - they usually deal with other breeders there - who have an in to the big boys. However - everybody takes a piece of the pie - before it reaches YOU. So get out your checkbook....
b) A small breeder in Europe. These are easier to deal with. However be careful. Some are not entirely ethical. They have been known to switch puppies to export. In other words - you pay for a top pup - they buy a back yard pup. They register the GOOD pup with someone other than the SV - in their name or a friends name - to get the papers. They send you the bad pup with SV registration papers. You get your AKC papers. A year later - they reimport their good pup - which never left their hands - from the other country - with bill of sale they make themselves - and register then with the SV. Voila - they just sold you nothing - and they still have the best registered pup. This is LESS common in Germany/Belgium/Holland than in countries east of there - but it happens. They have access to LOTS of pups - and figure you cant tell the difference anyhow. Now I am not saying ALL are this way - its actually a small minority in Germany or Belgium or Holland or Denmark that would do this. But I would be very careful with Czech, Slovack, and so forth - and keep both eyes open and check DNA for ANYTHING that comes out of Russia.
c) Individuals. Here in this country - individuals have a bad rep as Back Yard Breeders. Not so in Europe. Often they have VERY well bred, titled, and rated females. They will then pay a stud fee to a TOP TOP male. Now with this - you can get a real winner - IF - you know your bloodlines. Thats on YOU. There is good, and not so good, in this. The trick is to knowing WHERE these breedings are - who has the females - their contact information - who they were bred to - etc etc etc. The SV can tell you a lot - if you are a member - and you speak German. If not there are other sources - but probably I can not and should not post them here publicly. Now. If you find a GOOD breeding by an individual (not too hard actually if you know how), you contact that PERSON. You talk to them. Get a feel for them. Often they are quite friendly - telling you about their family - job - and so forth. If you feel good - have them send to you a CONTRACT for the puppy. It should specify PRICE, SHIPPING, and cost to obtain a BESHEININGUNG. Price is likely 800 Euro for working lines - not sure on show lines - if bred to a TOP dog and with a female of good breeding. Shipping 400-600 Euro or so - less if you buy multiple pups. Beisheiningung - 20 Euro or there abouts. In that co
2) Develop a bit of a rapport. Here is your dilemma.
a) A big breeder in Europe often gets a huge ego. Just try to talk to top line kennels of either show or working lines - you will find out this very fast. IF they even bother to reply to your email - they will talk to you like they are doing you a huge favor to acknowledge your existence. The reasons? First they sell to other breeders 99% of the time. They are not in the market to sell to individuals. They really dont want to be bothered with you. And econd - the last - the very last - thing they want to do is to export their best pups to another continent. Their reputation depends on them winning - in EUROPE. Unless you have an in with these folks - honestly - look elsewhere. A broker can help with this - they usually deal with other breeders there - who have an in to the big boys. However - everybody takes a piece of the pie - before it reaches YOU. So get out your checkbook....
b) A small breeder in Europe. These are easier to deal with. However be careful. Some are not entirely ethical. They have been known to switch puppies to export. In other words - you pay for a top pup - they buy a back yard pup. They register the GOOD pup with someone other than the SV - in their name or a friends name - to get the papers. They send you the bad pup with SV registration papers. You get your AKC papers. A year later - they reimport their good pup - which never left their hands - from the other country - with bill of sale they make themselves - and register then with the SV. Voila - they just sold you nothing - and they still have the best registered pup. This is LESS common in Germany/Belgium/Holland than in countries east of there - but it happens. They have access to LOTS of pups - and figure you cant tell the difference anyhow. Now I am not saying ALL are this way - its actually a small minority in Germany or Belgium or Holland or Denmark that would do this. But I would be very careful with Czech, Slovack, and so forth - and keep both eyes open and check DNA for ANYTHING that comes out of Russia.
c) Individuals. Here in this country - individuals have a bad rep as Back Yard Breeders. Not so in Europe. Often they have VERY well bred, titled, and rated females. They will then pay a stud fee to a TOP TOP male. Now with this - you can get a real winner - IF - you know your bloodlines. Thats on YOU. There is good, and not so good, in this. The trick is to knowing WHERE these breedings are - who has the females - their contact information - who they were bred to - etc etc etc. The SV can tell you a lot - if you are a member - and you speak German. If not there are other sources - but probably I can not and should not post them here publicly. Now. If you find a GOOD breeding by an individual (not too hard actually if you know how), you contact that PERSON. You talk to them. Get a feel for them. Often they are quite friendly - telling you about their family - job - and so forth. If you feel good - have them send to you a CONTRACT for the puppy. It should specify PRICE, SHIPPING, and cost to obtain a BESHEININGUNG. Price is likely 800 Euro for working lines - not sure on show lines - if bred to a TOP dog and with a female of good breeding. Shipping 400-600 Euro or so - less if you buy multiple pups. Beisheiningung - 20 Euro or there abouts. In that co
by Nans gsd on 16 March 2011 - 15:03
If you have been so ripped off by USA breeders; WHY would you trust another continent or country in buying sight unseen? That does not make any sence to me at all. My recommendation would be to find a reputable breeder here in US; and travel to see and pick your own puppy. Get to see the parents; you want health records, pedigree and anything else they can offer. I find it hard to believe that with all our knowledgable breeders on this forum that speak english you cannot find someone. Something is not right here and I would keep looking. 
by waleed on 16 March 2011 - 17:03
where are you located
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