Who is correct? - Page 1

Penn-hip x-rays can be accepted as young as 4 months old.

The SV accepts hips at 12 months old.

OFA certifies at 24 months old.

Who is correct, and why?

 It is not a matter of who is correct. It IS a matter of what each organization accepts for THEIR purposes.

Until every pup from a litter is documented by official x-ray(like the extinct ddr) I wonder if any of it matters!

The process and clearance to each individual dog x-rayed does matter. But gsdhaven you are correct that until EVERY pup from EVERY litter is documented by some system, it likely does not matter. Statistics are only useful when they can pass certain tests. Without enough information, statistics gleaned must be viewed as potentially invalid. Unfortunately, as the world is now, there will never be reliable statistics because people are free to not do anything but breed and sell without restraint or taking into consideration that doing so leads to trouble. Those who are unethical far outweigh the few who are ethical, in every walk of life.

Copied and pasted from another thread.......

I beg to differ, preliminary X-rays absolutely DO change. Were the prelims done @ 6 months or 2 weeks before the dog was bred? I have seen dogs that have had good hips at a young age not pass an OFA at 24 months. If prelims don't change, why does OFA require radiographs at 24 months and up instead of just accepting puppy films?

Penn-hip x-rays can be accepted as young as 4 months old.

The SV accepts hips at 12 months old.

OFA certifies at 24 months old.

Mirasmom.....
Very good thread.... Of the three you listed aboved, I believe OFA is the most reliable....Since the other two accept xrays so young, that could be a major reason why so many HD dogs are being bred and producing it...... Breeders don't realize it, because they accept  good results at such a young age and the  hips may have changed...Even at 12  months, nothing is final.......I do believe that at least an xray at 24months is the most relaible, but I also believe that a dog's status can change at any time in his life.....Since there is such a broad range of accepting xrays, I don't think any one of them is a definite as to if hips are good or not, due to the hips possibility to change throughout the lifetime of the dog.......
.If they are bad, they don't get better, but if they are good, they could change due to injury or genetics.......But who really knows for sure......

Therefore those who xray and consider themselves ethical are possibliy contributing to
the problem as well as those they criticize for being unethical....

not trying to argue that x-ray pics are bad. to the contrary, my point is that until all x-rays from all the pups in a litter are required we wont really know what the true genetics are.  you could have ofa excellent and dysplastic pups in the same litter and to assume the excellent  rated pups will throw healthy pups is mistaken. i think this was almost resolved in the 80's by the former soviets but the good ole us dollar has made it more confusing than ever. no breeder would submit an x-ray to the ofa if it didnt look good, until we take the honr system and marketing out of breeding GSD DOGS we will keep kidding ourselves and buying titles,certifications,and acting confused when their  a1 rated dogs produce less than that.    this is just my opinion and i would like to hear a better solution.

NONACONA:

iF  sv ACCEPTS  CERTIFICATION AT 12MOS..THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU ARGUE ABOUT DO PRELIMS CHANGE?..iF I PRELIM MY PUP AT 15 MOS OLD AND BRED THE DOG AT 23MONS OLD  ON A PRLIM XRAY THAT WAS OFA GOOD....WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE OF SENDING IT TO GERMANY AND HAVING THE SV CERTIFY IT AT 12 MOS...?

DO YOU GO REDO YOUR SV CERTIFICATION AT 24 MONS  OR  36 MONS BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS THEY CHANGE...MY 3 EXCELLENT OFAS   DIDNT CHANGE...


SOME AT 6 MOS DO CHANGE...i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT AGE A POSTER MEANT.  i WOULD HOPE THEY DID THE PRELIM ABOUT 15 MOS OR SO AND AT THAT AGE   NO CHANGE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER...SO IF YOU PENN HIP      ARE YOU SAYING   TO BREED HERE IN THE USA   WE HAVE TO GO REDO  A PENN HIP OR A SV RATING BECAUSE IT WAS DONE BEFORE    24 MONTHS JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT CHANGE.....

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS...I DON'T HAVE MY GLASSES IN HERE...AND CANNOT SEE...

YR

MANY DOGS HERE IN USA   ARE SV RATED AND BRED BEFORE 24 MONTHS OLD...ARE THEY WRONG??

Correct me if I'm wrong about this but I believe that in Germany after a dog has sired X number of litters he has to be xrayed again.  Sounds reasonable to me. 
Judy

 I think the SV's system of a zw rating far outperforms OFA ratings- OFA ratings (on the occasions that they are accurate) are simply saying what that one dog's hips look like. They say NOTHING of what the dog will PRODUCE. Now, which is more important? Fido's individual set of hips, or the family history of what his relatives have produced and the tracking of what his progeny will produce? 

Let's all reflect on the noch zugelassen dogs who produced many great hips and were known hip improvers. Only a system like the SV has in place would ever even KNOW this information, let alone benefit from it. The individual dogs' (in a breeding pair) hips are not what is really important; their likelihood of producing good or bad hips is what we are after, right?