Vaccine Debate - Page 1

This has fueled the current anti-vaccine crowd, seen here in the dog world, too. IMHO  What do you think?

 www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/14/berezow.autism.vaccine.link/index.html

Great topic. Another link I've posted, discusses this whole debate about vaccines. It's a bit long, but it's made me ponder things with own dogs. Unfortunately, society dictates that I must vaccinate if I'm going to engage in anything with my dog. Groomers, kennels, workshops etc. all require UTD vaccinations.  The read is a little long, but food for thought.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/froghollerfilas/VaccBlanco.html

I saw a great Frontline documentary (PBS) about this subject (human vaccinations):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/

As far as my own dogs go, at one point I had intended to have titers done instead of vaccines.  I changed my mind because flat out, it's a lot more expensive than vaccinating every 3 years, and frankly I don't buy everything I have read about vaccine reactions, or  the prevelance of same.  I only do core vaccines, every 3 years. 

I guess first I'd like to know what was involved in the "elaborate" fraud.  changing the age of a subject, although wrong, is not the same as making up a test subject entirely.  I'd like to know what was actually done and to what extent.

but he's not the only one.  this stuff happens everyday in the "for" and "against" vaccines or other drug camps all the time.  i mean Pfizer just paid a billion plus fine for lying about marketing and using a drug for stuff it wasn't supposed to be.  Scott Rueben made up entire studies out of thin air to get drugs approved for use that were then found to kill people and then taken off the market.  you might have heard of it, Vioxx??  So, this stuff happens both ways.

But this really has no bearing on my views.  I think the effects of over vaccination and vaccine reactions are better documented and readily proveable in animal studies, not so much in human.  I've never though "autism" which is just a spectrum of symptoms will ever be found to have "a cause". 

I am not going to comment on my opinion about the efficacy and importance of vaccines. The Frontline documentary itself is about 2 years old I think, and the entire subject has been discussed now for several years. His work was long discredited. However, that fact is just now coming to light among the general public. I suspect he may end up being prosecuted for fraud as well and end up in prison, but already he has lost his license to practice and his work completely discredited.

The saddest part of all this is that when people go off half-cocked believing without proper science and repeated studies demonstrating something, that some condition/situation is responsible for something else, the real cause of the condition/situation goes wanting for discovery. In this case, millions and millions of dollars all over the world have been wasted because of this research seeking answers in the wrong direction. Fortunately, there were a few who continued on other paths and some progress has been made understanding the causes of autism.

As well, people who have autistic children, and who so desperately want to find something to ascribe the condition to have also wasted years and years seeking remedies based on false pretenses. Then there is the damage that this man's supposed research did to the issue of vaccination in general. It is no secret that many people hopped on the band wagon and decided that it is indeed vaccinations in humans and dogs that are responsible for a host of other ills, when, in fact, there is very little proof of such (with rare exceptions). Untold numbers of people, especially children have suffered disease and worse, when most of that could have been prevented.

There is a lot more to say, but I am not in the mood for arguing with people. Even if you remain anti-vaccine, at the very least you might think of the problem as a whole rather than your individual objections. One way to eradicate and control disease and morbidity and mortality is through competent universal vaccination. When people fail to vaccinate their dogs, or themselves, there are serious consequences, not only for them, but for the larger whole.

Virology and the entire field of infectious disease has made and continues to make huge strides in understanding. We are close to a universal vaccine for influenza, for example. But, in part because of the damage done from this research, we have a whole group of people who have grown up under false pretenses with an incorrect set of assumptions. The internet as a vehicle for spreading false information has played no small part. Most people are lazy and they will read and believe the easiest found information. We have already recently discussed the reading and comprehension ability issue, and that too plays a part because sometimes there is no one to put out good information in a form that can be easily understood. People who formed behaviors because of this supposed association with vaccines and autism (and other diseases) will balk at trying to understand what is now discredited. The will persist in their  false claims and understanding and many will continue to be at risk, or worse, suffer because of those beliefs founded on bunk.

Written above:  "effects of over vaccination and vaccine reactions are better documented and readily proveable in animal studies" -- this is simply NOT the case. You make a statement like this.....now let's see some good science to back it up, not just what you read on the internet.......

I already commented on autism. The cause will most certainly be understood some day, just as the causes of so many kinds of cancers now are known.

yes hodie, we know you think you know everything. 

not everyone who "doesn't believe" got that way thru half truths and false pretenses thru the interent. 

some actually have degrees in virol related fields, have worked on vaccines that have been brought to market for animals and work with people on both sides of the fence.

 FYI, the ONLY legally required vaccine is rabies. Anything else is optional and any vet who tells you otherwise is flat out lying. You can figure out their motives for yourself. And it is not that hard to find kennels, etc. who will accept a titer instead of proof of vaccination. If you care to do a little homework, you should never feel forced into vaccinating your dog. I have found a way around everything but rabies on adults for just about everything-groomers, flights, etc. 

zdog,

No, I certainly don't know everything. But I know more than some. Still waiting for you to back up your comments.... 

Does anyone know if there is a discussion on accepting positive titer results for rabies for SV trials (instead of proof of vaccination)?