Surprise, Surprise - What a difference some patience makes - Page 1

I sometimes wonder why people don't let dog's grow up a little more.

I say this based on training yesterday.  My first SchH dog was Hanni who came to me without out of the box, lovely drive and a lot of prey drive.  When the time came to introduce her to the ideas of helper and barking at said helper, she was all about it, thinking this was a great game!

Now my male, who just turned 16 months has been a very different fellow all together.  He's never showed much interest in that silly man jumping back and forth with that strange pillow item.   Instead we waited a little until he was a good 15 months and then worked in a more defensive/aggressive mindset with Hanni out on the field as 'moral/barking' support.

It took patience and a lot of careful reading on the helper's part, time and patience so many people don't seem to have but yesterday boy did it pay off in spades.

We decided it was time for Erik to graduate and be out on the field without Hanni.  So I tied him out while a different dog was worked about half way down the field.  Used to hearing Erik start barking when Hanni was brought out, my heart sank into my shoes as he took one look at the situation, sat down and then went into a platz. of boredom.

I walked away from him to watch the other dog being worked and ruefully smiled at the helper as I indicated 'there he is, sniffing the flowers again'.  My helper simple grinned and gave me a 'don't worry about it' gesture.  He finished working the other dog and strolled over to pick up a bite wedge and his whip.   I stayed back for a moment because over the past 7 weeks Erik and the helper have been working one on one without me in the mix as a distraction.

Erik watched the proceedings curiously and the helper walked side on to him with the stick in one hand and the pillow on the other.   Helper weaved left, turned to weave right, Erik stood up at which point the helper turned and challenged him, stick up, stepping into him.

Erik exploded like a bear at the man.  I about fell on my ass in shock as my big goofy puppy who is usually all about climbing in your lap, who just 20 seconds earlier had been in a relaxed platz, hit the end of the back tie in with enough force to shake the tree, full throated barking all teeth showing.  He had no interest in the pillow, he went straight for the stick hand and the helper's chest. 

(Quick helper is quick and Erik didn't get either of those yummy tasting bits of helper but damn did he try!)

He was rewarded with the bite, which was almost through the pillow and the helper had me come and actually be a supportive presence for the first time (usually I was holding Hanni and vocalizing my support to Erik).   Boy did that really crank up the intensity another notch in terms of aggression. 

By the time we did a back-up bite (only his second) he almost took the helper off his feet he hit him so hard.

Amazing the difference that just taking a bit of time, patience and care has brought about.

 Excellent

Thank you Ibrahim, I'm still in awe of it.

He was completely neutral about the man until challenged and then it was all systems go, full throttle.

Lots of good, patient helper work starting to pay off in spades.

 If this dog was in other hands with less knowledge or lazy ower and handler he would have been put aside as not fit.
I will quote something in the same spirit of a well tempered GSD, that was said by Preston sometime ago:


Like I have said a number of times the hardest most correct temperamented GSD I have ever seen anywhere anytime was a GSD from a seeing eye kennel and sold as a family pet. He was safe around kids and friends but would go off like a rocket when suitably provoked, and all with no training at all, not even obediance. This dog was from Sinykin's LaSalle Kennels and was an import line from Germany back in the early 1970's. A truly astounding GSD. He had the look of eagles, great nobility, total confidence and that "don't mess with me or else" look of itching for a fight. He had "fire in the eyes". A local Sch trainer told the owner no GSD would stand up and fight an attacker without a lot of training when he took the dog to visit this local club. He told the trainer, heck no this dog will take anybody anytime. So the trainer suited up and said let him go loose. The trainer came at the dog and tried to run him off. The dog hit him directly head on and so hard it knocked his screen mask off, knocked him down and then the dog delivered a number of trepeated body bites in quick succession until the trainers screamed "get you dog off me". So this kind of temperament does exist, but it is rare these days. And I am not talking about unsafe "gangster dogs" who are a huge liability and hazard. The tough but correct dog being discussed is one that has good judgement, common sense and is stable and well balanced. A GSD like this is worth its weight in Gold.

That's a wonderful quote Ibrahim, thank you for sharing it in this thread.

I'll admit, there were times when I felt close to just giving up but our helper has been a Godsend and between giving me the confidence and some things I've read on the Database about my boy's lines, gave me the kick in the butt to just keep at it.

Erik's still very much a puppy, I can't see him doing anything like the dog in your story did but then I never expected him to go from calm, neutral to as dialed in as he did yesterday.

There is a lot of things that go into training a dog...Experience: Knowing when to do what...And at least as important is to know when to just Sit-Back and wait for the dog to mature and/or show what they're really made of...
I think the hardest thing for a Handler/Owner and/or Helper/Trainer to do is to be PATIENT and just give it time...We're all in such a hurry to get to SchH3 that we sometimes forget the in between...(Foundation Work)

~Bob~

Bob,

I agree and I wonder what it's doing to our breed as a whole.

I can't help thinking of the parallel to the Thoroughbred Industry where people want horses who run fast as 2/3 year olds but don't worry so much about soundness or ability to go 'distance' because that's not where the immediate return on the investment is found.

How many dogs are being shunted to the wayside because they're not prey monsters as young dogs and thus don't look as 'flashy' in terms of drive.  I hope he won't mind my bringing it back up but I'm reminded of a thread by Steve1 sometime last year where he posed the question of what happens to the shooting star dogs, who appear to be all that when they do their SchH 1 but when real pressure starts to come, they fold.

Yes it takes alittle maturity, I am glad he was a good boy :)))
When the light bulb comes on it is on !!!!
Always,
Cee

RLHAR

good for you and your dog. To your comment about the waiting time and the patience some people dont have.. I am one of them! I usually like to have an idea byt 12 mos. So far I had no issue with that. To me waiting around and hoping if the dog wakes up is not fun! I love to work my dogs, puppies.. 4 months old little fur balls that do things becasue the gentics tell them.

Everybody does things differently. Me, If a dog shows me nothing by 12 months.. my patience is gone..Guilty of it!

I am glad you dog is doing great!

GSDPACK

I would suppose it depends upon what you're looking for.

Erik's always been a phenomenal tracker, even back at 5 months with incredible drive, dedication to the track and focus.    It's been protection where he was taking his time to wake up.

Now that he has, wow is all I can say and in the meantime I have tracking knocked out of the park.