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by jamesfountain98 on 29 December 2010 - 17:12
Do you believe that neutering a high drive confident 8 month old malinois would have a negative effect on pursuing personal protection training with him
by Ruger1 on 29 December 2010 - 18:12
Bump....I am interested in the answer too....Where is Phil ?.....
by Sunsilver on 29 December 2010 - 20:12
I acquired my male GSD at the age of 3 years, and neutered him 6 months later when he developed prostate problems. He was an unpedigreed rescue, so I had no intention of breeding him. The only change I noticed to his personality was that I no longer had to worry about him lifting his leg and peeing on the counter at the vet's!
I would not neuter a male before it was fully mature, though. If you are a responsible dog owner, and don't let your male run around the countryside, getting into fights, and fathering mongrel pups, I see no need to neuter, despite what the vet's office and PETA say!
As for intact males getting into fights, I feel that's a behavioural issue, and as the dog's owner, YOU can control the dog, and train it not to pick fights. You are the pack leader, after all, right?
Of course, a lot depends on the dog. If your dog is already in the habit of challenging other males, I doubt neutering will change its behaviour, and you will probably always have to be on your guard when other males are around.
I would not neuter a male before it was fully mature, though. If you are a responsible dog owner, and don't let your male run around the countryside, getting into fights, and fathering mongrel pups, I see no need to neuter, despite what the vet's office and PETA say!
As for intact males getting into fights, I feel that's a behavioural issue, and as the dog's owner, YOU can control the dog, and train it not to pick fights. You are the pack leader, after all, right?
Of course, a lot depends on the dog. If your dog is already in the habit of challenging other males, I doubt neutering will change its behaviour, and you will probably always have to be on your guard when other males are around.
by hodie on 29 December 2010 - 20:12
NO......it will not do anything to him assuming you feed him, socialize and train him appropriately. Many people do prefer to allow males especially to wait for neutering until they are physically mature, usually 2-3 years, depending on the breed. I have seen many neutered males complete and do just fine. I have seen plenty of non-neutered males not do well. Other factors are involved, assuming you don't allow him to get fat and lazy.
by ggturner on 29 December 2010 - 22:12
Most police dogs and military dogs aren't neutered--testosterone helps male dogs maintain a high drive. Since you want your dog for personal protection, you might want to keep him intact. Here's an article on this topic: http://leerburg.com/neuter.htm .
by hodie on 29 December 2010 - 23:12
Most dogs that are not neutered are not neutered because males have a bias against neutering dogs....even dogs who are family pets. I see it all the time when boarding dogs. Dogs come in who will never and should never be bred, and I inquire why they are not neutered (especially when they complain about behaviors that are enhanced by hormones) and the answer I almost always get is that the husband doesn't want to neuter the dog....
There are no reliable scientific studies that document that neutering reduces drive......NONE. It is a figment of imagination.
There are no reliable scientific studies that document that neutering reduces drive......NONE. It is a figment of imagination.
by Mindhunt1 on 29 December 2010 - 23:12
I'm with Hodie on this. I haven't found too many empirical studies that support the notion that neutering later in life (when dog is mature) changes the drive any. My male that I neutered did not lose any drive and in fact will concentrate during training a bit more since he isn't as distracted by other males or females. Before anyone says its a trainer/handler issue, how many of you men have been concentrating on something and have not been a teensy bit distracted by a beautiful woman walking by? LOL.
I too have heard a majority of the excuses being that men didn't want the dog neutered. I had to fight my son and hubby on neutering this male.
I too have heard a majority of the excuses being that men didn't want the dog neutered. I had to fight my son and hubby on neutering this male.
by jamesfountain98 on 30 December 2010 - 02:12
Great article Turner. Thanks for everybodies responses.
Overall I think I've decided that 8 months is too early to neuter, especially if I am going to participate in PP work. I am going to wait until he is at least 2 years of age.
Overall I think I've decided that 8 months is too early to neuter, especially if I am going to participate in PP work. I am going to wait until he is at least 2 years of age.
by dunringill on 30 December 2010 - 02:12
www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
At the very least, I like to wait until a dog is physically mature before spaying or neutering. Mentally mature too, tho I'm still waiting for that day <G>
by Doberdoodle on 30 December 2010 - 03:12
Dunrinquill, there was a rebuttal published by a DVM on that article on Canine Athlethes, Lisa M. Howe, here's a copy of it http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/Documents/PedRebuttal%20.pdf
Also, know that NAIA is obviously biased, if you know who they are, which you should if you are believing publications they put out. I am not saying they are right or wrong, I am saying a person needs to know both sides before making an educated decision, and those two articles are ONE side.
Take opinions for what they're worth and make your own decision. The Leerburg link is one single individuals opinion, he is not a vet or expert on biology or hormones, but has a lot of experience with dogs, many years of training and many dogs, and is a breeder. You can expect a different opinion from a breeder than you would, say, from someone who has worked in a shelter and seen hundreds of dogs and puppies put down because of overpopulation. Some people feel strongly about individual rights, as I do, and some see the bigger picture and "greater good" of spay/neuter, and therefore they will push that as their opinion. Vets push 6 months for any dog, including Great Danes, because mainly the surgery is easier on a 6-month old, it takes less time- and if you read the link I posted this may give you ideas why vets have agreed it's fine to neuter 8-week old puppies of any breed.
So what this comes down to is mainly the big issue of pet overpopulation, (as well as health and temperament, but to a smaller degree). Pet overpopulation? And you may say to me "Oh, but responsible owners, we don't let our pets run free, dog professionals..." Well, then why is it that I can think of multiple "dog professionals" who have had accidental litters? If even a seasoned dog breeder cannot keep their sh*t straight with in-tact dogs, how do you expect the average person to do it?
If your dog is any good, being neutered should not affect his ability to do personal protection. I have seen plenty of TOUGH neutered males, it was the dog, not the testicles. I have asked many people who have neutered their working dogs (whenever I get the chance) to tell me how it affected them, and it's always positive- more focus, less sniffing and hormonal distractions. Would I neuter a male as a young puppy, no, but I would do it around 18 mos. of age. As others may say, there are pros and cons- note that it's different for males vs. females.
Also, know that NAIA is obviously biased, if you know who they are, which you should if you are believing publications they put out. I am not saying they are right or wrong, I am saying a person needs to know both sides before making an educated decision, and those two articles are ONE side.
Take opinions for what they're worth and make your own decision. The Leerburg link is one single individuals opinion, he is not a vet or expert on biology or hormones, but has a lot of experience with dogs, many years of training and many dogs, and is a breeder. You can expect a different opinion from a breeder than you would, say, from someone who has worked in a shelter and seen hundreds of dogs and puppies put down because of overpopulation. Some people feel strongly about individual rights, as I do, and some see the bigger picture and "greater good" of spay/neuter, and therefore they will push that as their opinion. Vets push 6 months for any dog, including Great Danes, because mainly the surgery is easier on a 6-month old, it takes less time- and if you read the link I posted this may give you ideas why vets have agreed it's fine to neuter 8-week old puppies of any breed.
So what this comes down to is mainly the big issue of pet overpopulation, (as well as health and temperament, but to a smaller degree). Pet overpopulation? And you may say to me "Oh, but responsible owners, we don't let our pets run free, dog professionals..." Well, then why is it that I can think of multiple "dog professionals" who have had accidental litters? If even a seasoned dog breeder cannot keep their sh*t straight with in-tact dogs, how do you expect the average person to do it?
If your dog is any good, being neutered should not affect his ability to do personal protection. I have seen plenty of TOUGH neutered males, it was the dog, not the testicles. I have asked many people who have neutered their working dogs (whenever I get the chance) to tell me how it affected them, and it's always positive- more focus, less sniffing and hormonal distractions. Would I neuter a male as a young puppy, no, but I would do it around 18 mos. of age. As others may say, there are pros and cons- note that it's different for males vs. females.
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